Comments on: Illegal immigration and jobs http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/ Grand Junction, Colorado's community Web site, discussions, forums, message boards and more. Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:21:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Sue http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1565 Sue Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:11:04 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1565 Amen, hitekredneck. Amen, hitekredneck.

]]> By: hitekredneck http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1564 hitekredneck Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:51:44 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1564 by the way, people, it'ld be nice to have a debate without all the vitriol being spewed by the way, people, it’ld be nice to have a debate without all the vitriol being spewed

]]> By: hitekredneck http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1563 hitekredneck Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:50:54 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1563 to get back on topic here, i'm going to make a statement that will probably upset a few of you....as john b. correctly states, "Why are the “illegals” here? They have a better existence here than at home. Why is that? Their country lacks development that considers the well being of all it’s citizens. "...this is true....and the mexican government will continue to do nothing to curtail the rush north as long as the illegals here continue to send vast amounts of money back home...we're good for the mexican economy...i've no problem whatsoever with immigration, provided its LEGAL and those same immigrants immerse themselves into the american culture (speak and read english) without committing crimes...if things are so horrible in their home country, then they need to effect changes, just like we did a little over 200 years ago...willis, regardless of whether greed for power supercedes the greed for money is irrelevant...the simple fact is that billions are made off the backs of illegals, and the costs to our general economy gets passed on to us all to get back on topic here, i’m going to make a statement that will probably upset a few of you….as john b. correctly states, “Why are the “illegals” here? They have a better existence here than at home. Why is that? Their country lacks development that considers the well being of all it’s citizens. “…this is true….and the mexican government will continue to do nothing to curtail the rush north as long as the illegals here continue to send vast amounts of money back home…we’re good for the mexican economy…i’ve no problem whatsoever with immigration, provided its LEGAL and those same immigrants immerse themselves into the american culture (speak and read english) without committing crimes…if things are so horrible in their home country, then they need to effect changes, just like we did a little over 200 years ago…willis, regardless of whether greed for power supercedes the greed for money is irrelevant…the simple fact is that billions are made off the backs of illegals, and the costs to our general economy gets passed on to us all

]]> By: John B. http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1562 John B. Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:43:20 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1562 bullishfrog, you have made quite a leap in "interpreting" what I have written. Amoral is not a synonym for evil. I don't believe all corporations are evil.In fact, I can't think of even one I'd put in that category. How did you come up with the idea that the "US is responsible for most of what's wrong with the world"? Sweeping generalizations for what people you put in your little boxes supposedly believes is not a tactic of inelligent discourse but that of an ideologue. You seemed to have leaped to unwarranted conclusions from my pointing out some less-than-admirable intrusions into the affairs of other countries to the south of us. It has happened all over the world where our foreign policy was questionably tied to the protection and furtherance of the interests of private American corporations. That's a long way from saying all that's wrong with the world can be laid at the feet of our country. bullishfrog, you have made quite a leap in “interpreting” what I have written. Amoral is not a synonym for evil. I don’t believe all corporations are evil.In fact, I can’t think of even one I’d put in that category. How did you come up with the idea that the “US is responsible for most of what’s wrong with the world”? Sweeping generalizations for what people you put in your little boxes supposedly believes is not a tactic of inelligent discourse but that of an ideologue. You seemed to have leaped to unwarranted conclusions from my pointing out some less-than-admirable intrusions into the affairs of other countries to the south of us. It has happened all over the world where our foreign policy was questionably tied to the protection and furtherance of the interests of private American corporations. That’s a long way from saying all that’s wrong with the world can be laid at the feet of our country.

]]> By: Willis_Leon_Johnson http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1560 Willis_Leon_Johnson Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:09:18 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1560 Close, but not quite. With money comes power. The more money you have, the more power you can exert over another person. The desire for power by far supersedes the desire for money. Money is only the tool. Close, but not quite.

With money comes power.

The more money you have, the more power you can exert over another person.

The desire for power by far supersedes the desire for money.

Money is only the tool.

]]> By: dc http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1550 dc Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:40:43 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1550 No, Bullishfrog. The love of money is the root of all evil. And Corporations love money. 2+2=4 No, Bullishfrog. The love of money is the root of all evil. And Corporations love money. 2+2=4

]]> By: bullishfrog http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1548 bullishfrog Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:51:25 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1548 You know John, it always amazes me when folks whose political philosohy is at the left end of the spectrum, appear offended when someone calls them a liberal, or a socialist. And yet, they have no problem putting labels such as conservative or right wing to those who disagree with them. Maybe you don't do that and that's fine. I doubt that a conservative would be offended to be called conservative. I think I could probably guess where you stand on just about any of the major political issues. As I wrote earlier, it's a free country and you are welcome to believe whatever you want. And if you believe that most corporations are evil, that the US is responsible for most of what's wrong with the world, that's your prerogative. You know John, it always amazes me when folks whose political philosohy is at the left end of the spectrum, appear offended when someone calls them a liberal, or a socialist. And yet, they have no problem putting labels such as conservative or right wing to those who disagree with them. Maybe you don’t do that and that’s fine. I doubt that a conservative would be offended to be called conservative. I think I could probably guess where you stand on just about any of the major political issues. As I wrote earlier, it’s a free country and you are welcome to believe whatever you want. And if you believe that most corporations are evil, that the US is responsible for most of what’s wrong with the world, that’s your prerogative.

]]> By: John B. http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1547 John B. Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:12:19 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1547 bullishfrog, if you feel compelled to describe people in a simplistic way by putting people in boxes, be my guest. I know who I am and I prefer to look at problems in a non-ideological way to determine what is the best way to solve them in the best way for people, not institutions, or worse yet, ideological fundamentalism. You appear to be hung up on the stale shibboleth that all problems can magically be solved through private enterprise. Often that can be demonstrated to be true, but not always. If your objective is to label me with a toxic label, in your opinion, my guess is that those who understand that all of human experience is complex might feel that your simplistic categorizing puts a toxic tinge on your character and analytical capabilities. bullishfrog, if you feel compelled to describe people in a simplistic way by putting people in boxes, be my guest. I know who I am and I prefer to look at problems in a non-ideological way to determine what is the best way to solve them in the best way for people, not institutions, or worse yet, ideological fundamentalism. You appear to be hung up on the stale shibboleth that all problems can magically be solved through private enterprise. Often that can be demonstrated to be true, but not always. If your objective is to label me with a toxic label, in your opinion, my guess is that those who understand that all of human experience is complex might feel that your simplistic categorizing puts a toxic tinge on your character and analytical capabilities.

]]> By: bullishfrog http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1545 bullishfrog Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:04:33 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1545 John, I have read enough of your letter to the editor, confirmed by what you have written above, to know exactly where you stand. Maybe liberal is not the correct way to characterize you. Socialist might be the better term. But hey, to each his own. It's a free country. John, I have read enough of your letter to the editor, confirmed by what you have written above, to know exactly where you stand. Maybe liberal is not the correct way to characterize you. Socialist might be the better term. But hey, to each his own. It’s a free country.

]]> By: John B. http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1538 John B. Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:45:42 +0000 http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/02/14/illegal-immigration-and-jobs/#comment-1538 bullishfrog, in the real world our policies toward other countries do not have to be overt to undermine or support the regime in power. The people of a country have the responsibility to determine the type of governance they want whether it is by democratic means or revolution. Our policies toward Mexico have been relatively benign because, under the primarily right-wing, one-party government Mexico has had, the people's inclination toward anything else has been kept in check. Mexico has posed no particular threat to our country ideologically and its administrations have kept order and the threat of anything spilling over to us.Except drug trafficing, of course. The same cannot be said for Central America where we have meddled to varying degrees for decades. Ever hear of United Fruit, banana republics and Iran-Contra for starters? Mexico's development, or lack of same, is not our "fault" but we certainly haven't gone out of our way to stimulate development for the very reason of the lack of transparency, a laxity of the rule of law and corruption that make it a poor place to invest. Evil corporations? Who said that? Corporations are amoral and not generally devices for social change. They are in business for profitability for their investors. Successful corporations operate on the edge of the law to be competitive. They often go over the edge if it is profitable to do so and the penalties and evalution of public sentiment make it worthwhile. Finlly, label me with whatever term you feel suits you but you don't have a clue what I think about any issue on which I have not spoken out. Simple labels usually indicate simplistic thinking and our immigration problems are anything but simple---and costly. And by the way,many--most?--Mexican Americans as far as I can tell want illegal immigration stopped and feel that they are given a bad rap by all of the things mentioned in posts above. But why let little things like that get in the way of taking shots at the Democrats? Our current out of control situation was caused by lack of attention by both Republican and Democratic administrations. Both parties need all the donors they can get and the donors usually get their way. And they like the situation just as it is. bullishfrog, in the real world our policies toward other countries do not have to be overt to undermine or support the regime in power. The people of a country have the responsibility to determine the type of governance they want whether it is by democratic means or revolution. Our policies toward Mexico have been relatively benign because, under the primarily right-wing, one-party government Mexico has had, the people’s inclination toward anything else has been kept in check. Mexico has posed no particular threat to our country ideologically and its administrations have kept order and the threat of anything spilling over to us.Except drug trafficing, of course. The same cannot be said for Central America where we have meddled to varying degrees for decades. Ever hear of United Fruit, banana republics and Iran-Contra for starters? Mexico’s development, or lack of same, is not our “fault” but we certainly haven’t gone out of our way to stimulate development for the very reason of the lack of transparency, a laxity of the rule of law and corruption that make it a poor place to invest.
Evil corporations? Who said that? Corporations are amoral and not generally devices for social change. They are in business for profitability for their investors. Successful corporations operate on the edge of the law to be competitive. They often go over the edge if it is profitable to do so and the penalties and evalution of public sentiment make it worthwhile.
Finlly, label me with whatever term you feel suits you but you don’t have a clue what I think about any issue on which I have not spoken out. Simple labels usually indicate simplistic thinking and our immigration problems are anything but simple—and costly. And by the way,many–most?–Mexican Americans as far as I can tell want illegal immigration stopped and feel that they are given a bad rap by all of the things mentioned in posts above.
But why let little things like that get in the way of taking shots at the Democrats? Our current out of control situation was caused by lack of attention by both Republican and Democratic administrations. Both parties need all the donors they can get and the donors usually get their way. And they like the situation just as it is.

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