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‘You Ain’t Gonna Like Losing.’
President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq. Bush’s mistake came in his belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in World War II. It is not.
Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The country was steeled by the hardship of that depression, but people still believed fervently in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders, so it was the people’s duty to back those leaders. Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied behind, and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not or whether the war was going badly or not.
And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great then as it is today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WWII than we have had in the entire Iraq war. But that did not matter The people stuck with the president because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their differences in WWII and worked together to win that war.
Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in. Small children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the war effort. Grade-school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to help the effort. Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age or condition, trying their best to join the military. Women doubled their work to keep things going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to butter was imposed; yet there was very little complaining. You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the president.
Interestingly enough, in those days there were no fat-cat actors and entertainers who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and complain to them about our president. Instead, they made upbeat films and entertained our troops to help the troops’ morale. And a bunch even enlisted. And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off with a Pledge of Allegiance, and with prayers for our country and our troops!
Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots in our cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. No newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch spies. A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had complained that German or Japanese soldiers were being ‘tortured’ by being forced to wear women’s underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being scared by a dog or did not have air conditioning.
There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected to a constant bombardment of pornography, perversion and promiscuity in movies or on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed gangs roaming our streets.
No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers fought so dearly to preserve. It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and Gomorrah and the land of Oz.
We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude changed when we found out that defending our country would require some sacrifices.
We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They believe that it is okay, even their duty, to kill anyone who will not convert to Islam. It has been estimated that about one third or over 300 million Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause. Hitler and Tojo combined did not have nearly that many potential recruits.
So, we either win it or lose it — and you ain’t gonna like losing.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall.
I would like to add, 60 years ago we did not have hyphenated Americans. There were no African-Americans, Asian-Americans, German-Americans, etc. We were Americans, and united! People were proud to learn our language and become Americans. Now we are forced to press 1 for English, and people are pitted against one another by race or class envy.
When we are united with a common goal, no one can defeat us. WWII proved that! But divided as we are now, we can be defeated. I want my country back!
SAUL FORSTER
Grand Junction
45 Responses to “Bush’s mistake was believing in his country”
Posted March 25th, 2008 at 2:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
An EXCEPTIONAL essay Saul.
Thank You
Posted March 25th, 2008 at 2:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Comparing WWII to Dick and Bush’s whack-a-mole adventure is just ludicrous.
Posted March 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Exceptionally stupid.
Posted March 25th, 2008 at 2:53 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well said Saul—-you are right on target.
Posted March 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
The Second World War was a joint effort to defeat a true Axis of Evil that was attempting to take over the globe. Innocent people were being slaughtered, and this nation rose up, came together, and helped save the world. The only thing that war has in common with this one is that our military personnel are dying.
This made-up “War on Terror” is nothing more than a way to enrich Bush’s buddies, and our soldiers are overworked, underpaid, under-equipped, and uncared for when they’re sent back home in pieces. In the eyes of this gentle Christ-like President that you so fervently worship, they’re expendable. A thug mercenary from Blackwater makes more in a month (funded by our tax dollars) than the average front-line infantryman makes in a year. This isn’t a war against evil. This is a scam to plunder the US Treasury. And it worked.
But go ahead and slap a yellow sticker on your car if it’ll make you feel like part of the noble War Effort. Dab a tissue to the corner of your eye when the news shows yet another child who’s lost a parent who should have been home, but got sent back for another tour. Isn’t that sweet? Just like in WWII, huh? So, exactly how many people have to die before you’ve fulfilled your “Boy, I wish I was in WWII” dreams? You might want to come up with a figure soon, because we’re running out of people.
You want so badly to be part of this noble war? You want to support our troops? Go pick up a rifle, and a ticket to Baghdad. Let one of our people come home to their family.
No, we’re not the same country that our forefathers fought and died for. Back then, our elected leaders had a duty to serve the interests of the ones who elected them, not the other way around.
Posted March 25th, 2008 at 3:49 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ya know curmudgeon, on most issues you’re not too far off.
But this “made-up “War on Terror” is nothing more than a way to enrich Bush’s buddies” statement shows a missing chapter of history.
The islamo-facists have been going around murdering Christians for a really long time.
So long in fact, that it would be difficult to not have learned a little about it sometime during your school years.
The Christian community does the crusade thing for a while, then when the moslems are pretty much beat back into their holes, the Christians drop it, forgive the remaining islamic whackos and go back to their normal, daily lives and let Peace settle in.
Then after a period of time, when the islamic screwballs rebuild their ranks, they go back to playing crusades again.
This time, instead of slapping them down again, jimmy carter gave Iran to them to play in.
During the Iraq-Iran war, one of saddamms planes stuck a missle into the side of one of our warships, and the resident of the White House did nothing.
billy clinton allowed numerous attacks on US Embassies, military installations, civilians, etc with no hint of reprisal, which just naturally told the islamic-facists that the US was weak, and had no nerve to defend herself.
George Bush, inspite of his failures at domestic issues has kept the terrorists OUT of this country, while France, Denmark, Great Britain, Spain, and other countries around the globe, have had terrorist attack on their home soil.
As far as “supporting the Troops”.
Here’s a few FACTS to help you figure this one out.
How democrats support the military.
In the 1980’s, there were 18 active duty divisions in the U.S.Army.
After 8 years of Clinton there are only 10 divisions.
In the ‘80s there were 569 Warships in the U.S.Navy.
After 8 years of Clinton there are only 276.
In the ‘80’s there were 37 active duty tactical Air Wings.
After 8 years of Clinton there are 20.
So, by voting democratic you supported the troops by gutting the military, slashed spending on personnel and equipment.
If there is not enough body armor, or vehicle armor to go around to protect the few troops we have left, don’t blame Bush, look in the mirror.
If China bothers you, don’t let it. Clinton changed the rules protecting the missile launch technology to “accidentally allow” that technology to fall into the hands of the Chinese military shortly after receiving campaign donations from people with very strong ties to the same Chinese military machine.
Now, just who is it that “supports” the troops?
Posted March 25th, 2008 at 5:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
You know Curmudgeon, you really don’t have a clue about terrorism and the Mid-East. I can say I do–Two current Marines in the family and one former Marine that wishes she would have stayed in. They all talk of the great things going on in Iraq and how awful it is that the media portrays it so differently than it really is. Your are right though—they are overworked and underpaid and that will only get worse if Hillary or Obama become President. At least they have gotten pay increases initiated by George Bush, although I believe their pay should be doubled.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 9:23 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
OMIGOSH WILLIS! I agree with you! I know. amazing. This was an amazing essay that it dripping with truth. I doubt Curmudgeon has any family in the military. If thats the case, please shut up! I have military in my family. They are REAL americians. I watched my brother in law, and Army Ranger, get choaked up when talking about this issue. People are in the military because they WANT to be. They WANT to protect our country. Each and every one of them knows the risk and sacrafice involved and they accept. They know that freedom is not free.
Now we have the moms crying because thier son or daughter was lost in a war that they don’t believe in. But that son or daughter did believe. And to throw a fit about it after the fact is a disgrace to that child.
We have become a softie, PC target. TARGET! We are rotting from the inside out because everyone has an opinion. Wake up people! The president cannot please everyone. There will be some conflict in opinions, but we should stand behind him.
He made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers.
Never ever forget that our people are over there fighting for both sides. Fighting for the freedom to slap a bumper sticker on my ride, fighting so you can stand on a corner and protest, fighting because they believe in America.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 9:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Jami I am sorry that I left out another minor detail.
We are not at war WITH Iraq, we at war IN Iraq.
That was the battlefield chosen by the terrorists, to the detriment of the Iraqi People.
Most prefer to live in a FREE, safe environment, not under the thumb of religious radicals that look at females as cattle to do with as they please, and a whole raft of other screwy ideas in the name of allah.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 9:56 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Jami: So, let me get this straight, if you don’t have family in the military serving, SHUT UP!????
Where does that leave the majority of Americans? Keep our opinions to ourselves? Only you have a right to an opinion?
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 9:58 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Did you see the young Iranian men daring to have “western” haircuts? I was overjoyed. Its such a small step but I call it progress. darn it… wrong forum =0) you know how I feel about going off subject LOL!
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 9:59 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Roland, if you voted democrat in the last 40 years, please don’t “support the troops” anymore.
Thanks, The troops will appreciate it.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:05 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Johnson: You think that “the troops will appreciate it” do you?…now you’re speaking for them, too?
there’s some paranoia constantly running through your rants.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:16 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Roland, if you read anything I write, you should know I think everyone has a right thier opinion. I keep my opinion to myself on many issues becuase I realize theres always two sides to the coin, and I may not be fully informed on the facts. I can however speak for the men and woman who serve our country in “my family”.
I find that most private citizens just wish the war would go away. Well its not going to. and if your not for the troops, your against them.
Are you going to speak for the thousands of boots on the ground? I can only say what I hear from soldiers personally, and not the media.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:23 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Roland,
The democrats tried everything they could to destroy the military capabilities of this nation.
FACTS prove that statement.
Now you go ask the military members of your family if they would rather have the military forces available prior to the clintons, or after the devastating cutbacks.
I’m betting they don’t tell you that it’s nice not having more troops to rotate through the combat areas.
I’m betting that they will tell you that having more ships and planes would be a good thing.
You do have someone in your family that is willing to defend your way of life…. right?
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:27 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Jami: I appreciate you saying that there are always two side to an issue. That’s refreshing sometimes, when you post on this.
Simple enough, though, “if you are not for the troops, you are against them”. I agree! To reitterate for the umpteenth time, I DO SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!
Some other posters on this site continue to insist that because I, and others, do not agree with their opinion that we are not Patriots, are “un-American”, etc.
You sound like you might have a more open-mind about this. This “war” is continuing to divide this country more and more, and we need to come together in our beliefs and our support, now more than ever!
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:41 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
JOhnson “FACTS prove that statement”. Would you mind sharing those facts?
This debacle is all the Democrats fault??? Who was it that was firm in their belief that we needed no more troops than initially sent, and that we would get out of Iraq quickly? Are Rumsfeld, Bush and Cheney Democrats?
Also, contrary to what you might think, my family is willing to “defend my way of life” and they don’t always agree with my opinions. But, at least, they are open-minded enough to hear both sides, and give REAL thought to their point of view.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:42 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Roland, it is not the “war” that is dividing this country.
It’s the politicians seeking some political advantage during this election season.
It’s being led by a dastardly republican, and anything they can say or do to damage the publics view of the war and the leadership, they will do, regardless of how many troops end up dead.
Higher body counts are good the democrats, as long as the public never understands that it was political rhetoric that caused their deaths.
No, roland, your not “un-american”, ro “unpatriotic”, just severely uneducated on the damage being done to this nation by politicians.
Words mean things, and reid, standing on the floor of the Senate stating that the war was lost caused more troop deaths by encouraging the insurgents.
Likewise the “troop surge” that was declared a failure before any additional troops set foot on the ground.
We have Americans fighting a war, and democrats losing a war.
Which do you prefer to support?
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:45 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I already presented the facts.
Go back a few messages and try REAL reading skills.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I support “Americans”, be they Democrat or Republican. And, I do see the damage being done to this country by politicians, what do you think I have been talking about? I just don’t blame it all on Democrats. That’s just ludicrous.(and, I as I’ve said before, I am not a Democrat)
“severely” undeducated.????
Man, you never give up trying to convince me that you have ALL the answers, and that you are the “real” intellect” here..
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 10:52 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh, those are your “facts”? It’s all Bill Clinton’s fault?
I can read, and sometimes just pass over your postings because you re-itterate the same points over and over. I would like to see a reference as to where you got your numbers, though.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 11:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
“I can read, and sometimes just pass over your postings because you re-itterate the same points over and over. I would like to see a reference as to where you got your numbers, though.”
It’s history data roland.
Look it up for yourself to PROVE me wrong.
“Oh, those are your “facts”? It’s all Bill Clinton’s fault?”
Was he in offive during the 90’s when all the cuts were made?
Then yup, pretty much his fault. Backed up by his comments that he “loathed the military”
More Historical FACT.
“Man, you never give up trying to convince me that you have ALL the answers, and that you are the “real” intellect” here.”
So far, I’m dealing with FACTS, while you play with rhetoric.
My position is provable, yours is based on wish…
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 11:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh no… trust me. I am an young Americian. Before I was married into a military family, I was not in support of this war either. After 3 years of very long talks with people I have come to love and trust, I see that the media is not to be trusted.
Talk to the service men and women in our country, don’t take your news at 5 o clock to be the end all be all of what is going on over there. I used to think there was a diplomatic solution. But I think as americans we are divided into two groups. One, “The unaffected american” who goes about living in ignorance, because that is bliss. Then the “freedom fighter american, and this person is burdened with the knowledge of all the threats to America and is willing to sacrifice to protect her.
Its not just Iraq. The list is a mile freakin long. Iran and North Korea are threats as well. The president of Iran has said “we will wipe the west and isreal off the map”
There is always going to be a war. When we have something as precious and as complicated as our nation, There will always be others seeking to destroy it.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 11:10 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Pretty easy for you to say, Johnson. Of course, everything coming form you is “fact”! Mine is just rhetoric. Good way to “discuss” things, huh?
Sorry to mess up your morning, but I have to leave, and won’t be back for a few days, so find someone else to rant to, I’ve wasted enough of my time with one-sided discussions.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Don’t you know that nothing bad is ever the fault of the wing-nuts? If anything is screwed up its automatically Clinton’s fault, or maybe Jimmy Carter. Republicans are always right, and Democrats are always wrong. The louder and more often they screech this, the more they believe it.
Willis, your so facts about the military are a desperate ploy to point blame, as usual. You may remember that Clinton took our military to war in the Balkans, removed a truly evil government, and restored democracy and stability to the region, all without losing a SINGLE U.S. serviceman. All the while Republicans whined and fretted and tried to defund the war. Interesting, huh? Clinton left office and left behind 30 combat ready brigades, compared to bush’s messed up army of only two combat ready brigades, by the most conservative estimate. Also, why has the Army had to lower its recruiting standards to allow in felons, and morons? And had to start offering $20,000 signing bonus? Oh right, its because the democrats and some 70% of the country think this war is stupid.
No, when you put a failed texas oilman in the whitehouse, a man who has never done anything right, he’s going to screw it up. Dick and Bush have not accomplished a single thing they said they were going to. Except removing Saddam, but that could have been accomplished with a CIA operative and a 2 dollar sniper bullet. But just put your fingers in your ears and say “Clinton did it, Clinton did it,” over and over again so you don’t have to face reality.
While we’re on the subject, WHAT IF CLINTON HAD… lost several billion dollars by the side of an iraqi road? …lost 250,000 weapons in iraq, without even recording serial numbers? …continued to “lose” several billion dollars worth of iraqi oil every month? …squandered our federal treasury? …
Keep pointing fingers, keep blaming Clinton, but a lot of us are starting to realize that the republican party has strayed so far from conservatism that it no longer resembles anything even remotely respectable.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 12:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It took a lot of reading before I found a shred of truth in this load of rhetoric.
HOWEVER!!!!
You done good with the following:
“the republican party has strayed so far from conservatism that it no longer resembles anything even remotely respectable.”
But, back to reality, the democrat party has gone off the deep end when it comes to destroying America.
Clinton left what?
FACT:
“In the 1980’s, there were 18 active duty divisions in the U.S.Army.
After 8 years of Clinton there are only 10 divisions.”
Do your own research to disprove it, or possibly LEARN from YOUR research.
As far as your Bush Bashing…
“No, when you put a failed texas oilman in the whitehouse, a man who has never done anything right, he’s going to screw it up. Dick and Bush have not accomplished a single thing they said they were going to. Except removing Saddam, but that could have been accomplished with a CIA operative and a 2 dollar sniper bullet”
sigh, to have failed as miserably as you think Bush has, you need some pretty big feet to fit into his “boots”.
Mr. Cheney has also done some impressive things in his career, but that makes no difference to you.
As to the $2.00 sniper bullet idea, that’s against numerous federal laws enacted by democrat controlled congresses with more than enough votes to override and Presidential veto.
But, that’s historical fact that you don’t believe in.
So it’s moot.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 12:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Dear Mr. Johnson:
Well it is with regret that I see you are riling up the populous again. Is it so hard for you to play nice and try to compose a reasonably, fact-filled and defensible line of reason. Leon–is that really so much for me to ask of you?
Since it is 11 in the morning there and you have been on a web rant for a while can I assume that you don’t have gainful employment? Are a retired Federal Employee, or just a member of the county’s terminally unemployable class. Perhaps you stock the Super Walmart shelves during the dead of night and are just kicking back with a brew and a keyboard. This is my third time with this-please throw me a bone here and answer.
Reviewing your threads I notice that everyone you initiated (that means you started) have not received a single supplementary comment. Nice work!
Also, I must say that your comment on the oil and gas situation was a real humdinger-do you line these arguments out all by yourself or are you getting some assistance from elseware. I mean-I like you and all-but I wouldn’t let my 12 year old out the door with something that poorly reasoned (oh yeah, your writing could be tightened up quite a bit too) try Strunk and White for starters.
Now go ahead and rant at me again but just assure me that you put down the beer long enough to use what little home equity money you have left to get that plane ticket to Irak so that we can show you how the world really lives-in person.
To a friend who really deserves a flogged-bottom-good day.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 12:28 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
In all of this ranting I have realized something.
democrats, republicians, independants, party that hasnt been made up yet, listen up…..
Don’t put me in your political box. Its so screwed up I can’t tell if I am a republician with independant views, a democrat, far on one side or the other.Its crap.
“ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country ”
Its not about your side or my side. who is doing what where. What can we do… together?
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 1:06 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
re:#26–Clinton did it! Clinton did it! Thanks for proving my point, willis. Now ask yourself where these important, conservative values have gone: Fiscal prudence. Respect for professionalism. Emphasizing military readiness over adventures in ‘nation building’. Belief in openness, transparency, and accountability. Respect for science. Gentility and civility in political discourse. Distrust of secrecy. Respect for small business. Government contracts that are granted to competent low-bidders, not cronies. Saving for a rainy day. Caution in foreign relations. Maintaining our reserves and respecting the National Guard. Respect for allies and world opinion. Practicing what we preach.
And, again, ask yourself how loudly you would have screamed if Clinton had done even a tenth of the screwed-up stuff that bush-co has.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 2:52 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
This is not Bushes war. I think the following compilation says it all!
http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 3:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
An odd thing occurred.
You are blaming all the problems of the world on the republicans while, at the same time, ignoring all the damage the democrats have done to this country.
Indeed, the list of stupid things the republicans have done is pretty much accurate.
And yes, clinton did destroy as much of the military as he could.
But all we get from you on historical fact is blithering drivel without denying the facts.
And before anybody asks again, no, I am not a republican, nor am I a member of any other party.
No current party considers the United States Constitution a valid, controlling document that this nation was built on.
People, such as yourself, spout Rights, without knowing what rights are actually guaranteed by the Constitution.
Nor are most Americans aware of the actual wording of the Declaration of Independence, or why it came to be written.
There are even fewer people who know how many installments there were to the Federalist Papers (85), much less read them.
But facts do not mean much if they interfere with your political views, even if you don’t understand the consequences of those views.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 5:40 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’m not talking about all the problems in the world, I’m talking about that stupid adventure in Iraq, and the morons responsible for it. We are also talking about the wing-nuts knee-jerk response, “It’s Clinton’s fault!” Which, by the way, you (willis) used again in rant #31.
As for your historical fact that you are so dreamy about (Clinton destroying the military), there are a couple things to remember. The cold war was officially over, meaning the huge industrial-military complex which had been built up over the years was no longer needed. The idea was to reduce the size of the military and the defense budget while making it faster, more flexible, and better able to deal with modern warfare scenarios. Sure some people lost jobs, and sure, our forces became smaller, but as the likelyhood of full scale land wars essentially disappeared, the military was more suited for fast action warfare like the first Iraq war, and the initial shock and awe strategy in March of ‘03. Also, in the nineties, when sane people worked for the American people from both sides of the aisle, there was no way to predict the impending idiocy of bush-co and their blatant misuse of the military.
Willis, as for the last part of your rant #31, I can’t see that it has any relevancy in what we’ve been discussing, but I’m sure glad you pointed out how smart you are.
Posted March 26th, 2008 at 5:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“I’m not talking about all the problems in the world, I’m talking about that stupid adventure in Iraq, and the morons responsible for it.”
That would be?
Maybe the terrorists that flew planes into the World Trade Center Towers?
Probably not, that was just some good ol’ boys fresh in from the desert on a
joy ride in an airplane.
“The idea was to reduce the size of the military and the defense budget while making it faster, more flexible, and better able to deal with modern warfare scenarios.”
That would be a “modern” war scenario as in… , say…. oh, how about Iraq?
Posted March 27th, 2008 at 9:50 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Where in your coveted ‘historical fact’ supply does saddam hussein or Iraq have anything to do with 9/11?
The military worked just like it was supposed to in March of ‘03….until they got to bagdhad and found out they were now policemen. Probably Clinton’s fault…
Posted March 27th, 2008 at 10:03 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
You said this:
“Where in your coveted ‘historical fact’ supply does saddam hussein or Iraq have anything to do with 9/11?”
That tells everybody that you are ,historically, a nonfunctional illiterate.
Perhaps you should invest a little time and do your own research.
If you need an education in history, I would highly suggest you attend the local library on a regular basis and read something other than political tracts.
“Willis, as for the last part of your rant #31, I can’t see that it has any relevancy in what we’ve been discussing, but I’m sure glad you pointed out how smart you are.”
The Founding Documents I spoke of would be an excellent place to start.
If you are ignorant of what is contained within those documents, then you are not in a position to discuss the issues at hand.
Posted March 27th, 2008 at 1:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Please enlighten me as to what Iraq or Saddam H. had to do with 9/11. I’ve looked, but other than speeches by neo-cons in which we the American people were lied to, I can’t find any direct correlation.
And by the way, I really don’t like you, but I have not called you any names or insulted you directly. I know it’s hard when your arguments suck, but try to keep this civil.
Posted March 27th, 2008 at 2:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“I’ve looked, but other than speeches by neo-cons in which we the American people were lied to, I can’t find any direct correlation.”
Try post #30 by Rexall, it’s not by “neo-cons”, but by your heroes, including the clinton broad.
“And by the way, I really don’t like you, but I have not called you any names or insulted you directly. I know it’s hard when your arguments suck, but try to keep this civil.”
Interesting.
By your own admission, you are ignorant of historical facts, have little knowledge of the Founding Documents, and, most recently, have difficulty finding details about why we are in Iraq.
That makes you ignorant of certain knowledge.
Not necessarily a bad thing, and entirely curable with education in those areas where you have little or no knowledge (ignorance).
With this self acknowledged ignorance of the subject at hand you claim that my arguments “suck”?
Ignorance can be cured with education, stupidity requires a person to refuse to educate himself in order to remain ignorant.
And I’m not “insulting” you, I’m pointing out the failures of your positions, which you steadfastly refuse to examine and re-evaluate.
You deny real, actual fact as having no value to the discussion because the facts do not support what you want.
It’s not my job to make you smart, nor to “educate” you.
That is something that only you can do.
Regardless of what you desire to do in this life, it will always be your choice to learn how to improve your life, or accept the status quo and never make any meaningful gains in life.
So, go forth and learn, or stay and remain clueless as to why life passes you by.
Posted March 27th, 2008 at 3:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
That movie says nothing that connects 9/11 to Iraq. Period.
Willis, you haven’t disproven a single thing I’ve said, because you can’t. Your ideas and argument are so mixed up and confused you can’t even reply coherently to “my positions.” All you can do is call me ignorant and go on changing the argument.
[Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed
By Walter Pincus and Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, June 17, 2004; Page A01
The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no “collaborative relationship” between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration’s main justifications for the war in Iraq. ]
[Key Bush Intelligence Briefing Kept From Hill Panel
By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2005
Ten days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President Bush was told in a highly classified briefing that the U.S. intelligence community had no evidence linking the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein to the attacks and that there was scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda, according to government records and current and former officials with firsthand knowledge of the matter. ]
Real actual facts that are relevant to the discussion are perfectly acceptable.
Posted March 28th, 2008 at 7:12 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
From your repeated requests for a “direct” connection between 9/11 and Iraq, apparently nothing short of a written order from saddamn ordering the attacks on that day will suffice.
Which brings us all the way back to “historical facts”
During WWII there were numerous North African countries that did not attack us, but American Military personnel fought and died there.
Numerous European countries did not attack us, but American soldiers fought and died on their soil.
In the Pacific theater, various small island nations did not attack us, but American soldiers fought and died there.
In China, which also did not attack us, American soldiers fought and died there.
Those Men and Women fought and died so you could live free and safe from fear in your own communities and homes.
When I suggested you do your own research, the first place you looked was the “news” media?
THE LEAST RELIABLE source of facts?
When you allow your hatred, based solely on political hyperbole, you lose any and all credibility.
With the RIGHTS actually GUARANTEED by the Constitution, come RESPONSIBILITIES.
If, or when, you figure out what that statement means, feel free to let me know.
Posted March 28th, 2008 at 8:41 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I wish I could laugh in your face. Once again you missed the point entirely, changed your argument to avoid reality, and in classic wing-nut fashion, threw in a paranoid rant about the media. My God. And then you lecture me. Ridiculous.
The U.S. invaded a sovereign nation in March of ‘03. Do you remember that?Do you remember the reason presented for that invasion? Watch that stupid movie #30 again if you don’t. Now tell me what connection existed linking 9/11 to Iraq. PLEASE! And quit f***ing lecturing me.
Posted March 28th, 2008 at 8:59 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
“And quit f***ing lecturing me.”
You consider this “growed up” language?
tsk, tsk…
Do you scream at your computer screen too?
Posted March 28th, 2008 at 9:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis…. LOL. I think I come here just to see how many people you have angered this morning! Its comedy how they react.
Can someone reply to post 28? I am young, but I care about our country. I care about the economy, the military, the gorvernment. Is it completely naive of me to think we could fix alot of these problems if we stepped out of the political box?
The reason “The U.S. invaded a sovereign nation in March of ‘03.” seems to be common sense. They give you all of these bull***t reasons because the same people that elected them turn on them. Because as Americans we have lost all backbone and want to be as politically correct as possible. I guess that means bringing pie to terrorists while they are detained. Open your eyes. Can you not see that we are in danger? That when the Iraq conflict is solved we still have to deal with IRAN… who refuses to stop his uranium enriching dispite sanctions. after that North Korea, who is test firing missles as we speak. Its not going to end in our lifetime folks. Stand behind your goverment. Stand beside your fellow americans. I will stand with each and every one of you, no matter how badly our opinions differ. Divided we fall.
Posted March 28th, 2008 at 11:09 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Aww Jami, I just enjoy giving people something to think about other than the drivel they are spoonfed daily by the imbeciles pretending to be “news” people.
Whatsis name would do well to go back and read his responses to me by themselves, without reading anything I wrote. It’s a headscratcher.
Back to #28.
“Don’t put me in your political box. Its so screwed up I can’t tell if I am a republician with independant views, a democrat, far on one side or the other.Its crap.
“ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country ”
Its not about your side or my side. who is doing what where. What can we do… together?”
Anybody with 3 living brain cells and an internet connection can go back to the time of which your JFK quote originated, and examine the political philosophies in effect.
The current “republican” party would have been outlawed as UnAmerican
The current “democrat” party would have been shipped to Russia as a progressive party to improve the power Kruschev held over the Russian People.
What we can do together as a nation of people tired of the overbearing government?
Well, stop voting for either of the two major parties.
But that really doesn’t leave us a choice either.
In Colorado, we can get items on the ballot to limit the ability of politicians to have complete control over the Citizens of this State.
First and foremost should be an amendment to take away tenure from “public” employees.
It should not be a difficult thing to get rid of a bad government employee, but the politicians have passed laws making it impossible.
Any public employee union contract should be negotiated by private business leaders and working Citizens, not overpaid, unaccountable bureaucrats.
We can find, and help fund the various organizations that support the 10th Amendment to the Constitution, and start taking away the power from Washington DC, and returning it to the States and the People.
Taking OUR country back from the politicians will be a daunting task, but it must be done soon.
If you only had to pay taxes to accomplish the Constitutionally mandated functions at the federal level, your taxes would be cut to nearly nothing.
Nearly 75% of federal spending is in direct violation of the 10th Amendment.
The 13th Amendment needs to be repealed, and the taxing system be replaced by something similar to Boortz’s “fair tax” plan.
Get rid of the “federal reserve” system. It’s privately owned, not government.
Private investors are getting incredibly rich off the People of this nation.
We need to go back onto either the gold, or silver standard.
A classic example of the difference;
Your federal reserve issued one dollar note buys avery verry small piece of a barrel of crude oil.
However, an ounce of gold today buys exactly the same amount of crude as it did 50 years ago.
So, would you rather stay with a failing monetary system, or go back to what we had BEFORE fdr?
Outta time for now. Gotta go do something “productive” for a while…
Posted March 28th, 2008 at 11:25 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis still hasn’t answered my question.
Jami, the problem is that there is no sense to the Iraq situation, common or otherwise. It was a huge mistake, our military has been crippled and our treasure has been stolen by the kleptocrats in power. Terrorism is a problem to be solved with police forces, like the CIA or FBI or Scotland Yard. To throw our military into the situation and hope they “win” is just stupid. The only winners here are the terrorists, who killed some 3500 people and wrecked 3 planes and two awesome buildings, and then sat back and watched our whole country come apart at the seams. Bin Laden couldn’t be happier, watching our military being ground down to a nub playing whack-a-mole, watching our treasury dwindle to nothing, watching us borrow billions and billions from China, watching the value of the dollar plunge, watching oil prices go from $30 to over $100.
Posted March 28th, 2008 at 12:23 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I am upset about the economy too. I am a small business owner (hence why I can check this so amny times a day) I get upset when I am paying taxes, supporting welfare services when I can’t even get healthcare of my own because I get Migranes. I am paying for a surgery I had back in oct 2006 out of pocket. I am 27. Is that fair? Hell no.
But do I put that anger about all issues and roll them together? No. Just because I dislike the way the economy is being handled doent mean I call foul across the board.
I am very upset, but I have yet to meet a perfect human being that we could elect and please everyone. All other nations included, not just the citizens. Its impossible. We have to start working together, bottom line. Theres no trust in this relationship between government and America, Its fundamentally broken.
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