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The recent death of the local young lady and her unborn child is tragic on every level.
It is tragic that the system failed to keep this killer in jail. On the same note, the same failed system did work by denying the lifting of a restraining order against this killer.
The restraining order could have worked had either the victim or the family alerted authorities the moment this person pulled up in front of the home. The victim voluntarily put herself and her children in harm’s way by getting into this person’s van.
I keep reading on how the system failed by his being free. OK, he was free. But she and her family had the choice to enforce the order. They chose not to.
I hope that all families involved with this can find some peace, knowing all the truths there are to know. When does a “victim” of domestic abuse stop being a victim and begin being a volunteer?
BARB EPP
Grand Junction
13 Responses to “A victim or a volunteer?”
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 12:52 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
True enough Barb Epp. I’ve heard it said lots of times, regarding spousal abuse: “First time, his fault — Second time, your fault.” Haven’t yet figured out why these folks keep going back for more of the same. It seems to only get worse. Court records will bear that out.
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 2:31 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“His fault” the first time, “her fault” the second? Does that suggest an abuser is somehow “less guilty” or even “not guilty” if it’s a repeat offense involving the same people? Where would you draw the line with the children? And what about if the abuse escalates; one day it’s a punch in the shoulder, a month later an attempted strangulation?
Is there mutual responsibility in some such cases? You could probably make a case for it; the situations some people choose to walk back into is baffling. Me, I’d still say the one who’s causing the injuries is more to blame. No matter what, though, I doubt that the young woman volunteered to be shot to death in front of her children.
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 2:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
That is not my implication at all. The shooter is at fault here..hands down. There was in this case, however, a choice to either enter a dangerous situation or not. I have not heard kidnapping mentioned as of yet.
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 2:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
‘Twas never my implication, sir, that the victim volunteered to be murdered in front of her childeren; only that she had a choice whether to join the killer in his van or not…simple as that.
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 2:53 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Barb; - You want to know why an abused woman would ask to have a restraining order lifted? Because, in many cases, after enough abuse, the victim is convinced that if they just do one more thing right, if they show their abuser how much they love them, or if they give them a break (like lifting a restraining order or trying to drop the charges) that the abuse will stop. That’s a standard justification used by abusers; “I’m only doing this because you make me so mad” and so on.
Frankly, “First time, his fault; Second time, hers” is simplistic, unsympathetic, and borderline misogynistic, in my opinion. It implies that once someone is abused, they can just walk away, and that putting up with it more than once is their responsibility.
Blaming the victim in this case, in even a small part, strikes me as incredibly insensitive, and neglects even a brief thought about what might have been going on in the abused person’s mind. But I suppose, in some people’s minds, on some level, she must have been asking for it.
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 3:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I cannot seem to re post a rebuttal resonse, but I will try again. I knew by taking this position I would be stepping right in it, so to speak. However, I can speak here from experiance…there again one must not assume one knows every situation. And so this is my standard to double…I am a survivor. Because I did not get in the van. Each case is indeed different. The facts of this one are this: Killer at large, restraining order in place, ingoring/not enforcing restraining order, two dead people.
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 4:47 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
test post
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 4:56 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey, guys. The facts of THIS case are this: Known domestic abuser at large. Restraining order in place. Victim in safe place. Known abuser picks up victim at safe place. No call is made to athorities that abuser is at safe place in violation of restraining order. Victim leaves safe place, people watch her go. Victim is gunned down in front of kids…two people dead now. And you know what? This killer will probably get a reduced sentence because the victim DID get in the van!!! And ya know what else? I am a surviving VICTIM of abuse..not once, but TWICE!!! So please do not preach to me about the whys and whatfors of domestic abuse. All folks need to be accountable at some point for their own actions. And I do indeed realize why women do what they do and each individual case is different. I never said this woman volunteered to be gunned down in front of her kids. My thoughts are that if you know a man is violent? why bring your children along in the first place> Why get in the van at all? At some point one must choose not to get in the van. I did.
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 6:09 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Clarification, please; Barb = cednago1? Okay, then.
I would have thought being a survivor of domestic abuse would have given you a bit more insight and sensitivity into the mindset of a victim, but I guess everyone’s experience is different. You survived, and are to be admired for that. I just don’t think someone else should be condemned because you survived and she didn’t.
I guess I’m more comfortable preaching to the living than I am playing Monday Morning Quarterback over the corpse of a pregnant woman. As far as I’m concerned, she could have let him in the house, cooked him dinner, and served him tea afterwards. Nothing she did merited, in even the tiniest way, getting gunned down in the street.
But that’s just me.
Posted April 8th, 2008 at 7:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I can understnad the frustration of anyone on the “outside looking in” whether one is a survivor, friend, or relative of someone who has experienced domestic violence (and who has not experienced it either directly or indirectly, through a friend or relative?)
For those of us lucky ones on “the outside” it is like watching a horror movie … you may yell GET OUT! GET OUT OF THE HOUSE NOW! But you have no control. When it’s someone you love it must be 1000-plus times worse than that horror movie, in fact.
But all of this said it is apparent, the psychological aspects of abuse must be incredibly complex because so many victims’ behaviors do not follow the path of common sense.
Regardless, the one who commits the violence is the ONLY, ONLY ONLY one to blame.
Posted April 9th, 2008 at 7:03 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Agreed. This is about choices. All over to media we are bombarded with making the right choice; put children first etc etc. This young woman was but a child herself, too!! Where were her family? Why didn’t somweone say…if not that little voice in HER head, OK..this could be potentially dangerous, he did just get out of prison for beating you…why don’t you not go..or at least leave the kids here? This was a bad choice that ended in the worst possible senario. Now her kids are alone with the visions of horror in her head. The killer is the killer..he is the one at fault. Hands down. But had a different choice been made, this young lady and her baby may still be alive today.
Posted April 9th, 2008 at 9:07 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
As a victim of domestic abuse… to the point of him throwing me out of a 2 story window, I have a few thoughts on this. First and foremost …. She was blinded by love. In my case, I was young, and I believed everything he said. That he would change, He was sorry, He would get help blah blah blah. Believed it with my whole heart and soul. Was I dumb? yes. Without a doubt, one of the most dumbest things I have ever done. I could see nothing but this man.
That being said, I was taught a very hard lesson the night he threw me out of a window and tried to kill me. I don’t know why it took so long for me to realize this was all wrong. I am ashamed I let that happen to me. And yes, I take responsibility for staying and letting the abuse continue. I know why, I was blinded by what I thought was love, but it is still my fault I was in that position in the first place. It also would have never happened if I had the strength and courage to leave when I saw thw warning signs. and ladies, theres always warning signs….
once again … LADIES LISTEN PLEASE!~!!! Don’t let this tragedy be for nothing! She didn’t think he would hurt her, she was wrong. I was wrong.DONT MAKE THAT MISTAKE!!!! Call your family. friends. A church, somewhere safe! Especially if you have children, PROTECT THEM! LOVE IS NOT SUPPOSE TO SEND YOU TO THE ER! Maybe Anna can help save one of you?
Posted April 9th, 2008 at 10:25 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Please walk a mile in this girl’s (or others like her) shoes before judging her behavior! SHE was the victim! Those of you who have never been on either end of this type of situation really can’t understand the dynamics of this type of relationship. It’s sick and it’s twisted and it’s damaging.
As a side note, I have been there, done that. I filed several DVOs against my then husband and now ex-husband. He ignored the DVOs and swore to me each time he’d change and NEVER be that way again. Thankfully, I got out alive. Although, I have no doubt in my mind that he would, to this day, kill me and bury me in the desert if he thought he could get away with it and we’ve been divorced two decades. I won’t be safe until he is no longer on this earth.
Bottom line is we all want to believe the best of the people we love. We believe they are sorry, we believe they will change, we believe if we love them enough and support them enough… it will be enough. It’s not, I know that now. Women are nurturers by nature and this type of man preys on that. They place blame on the women they are victimizing. They are all sweet and charming and nice in public and in front of their friends, but behind closed doors they are monsters.
As Jami and others have said in their posts - Ladies, do not believe them, they will not change on their own or for you. They need professional help. Call the Domestic Violence hotline and let them help you and put you into shelter before he puts you in the hospital or in a grave.
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