Comments on: Colorado leading they way in school testing

By: oneperson

oneperson — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 02:34:50 +0000

The discussion continues to evolve around whether or not there should be “standards-based” education. As Ms. Neal said Colorado — the legislators, the governors, the business community and even the majority of parents (we keep voting in people who support standards-based education) support the concept. Standardized-education is here to stay for the foreseeable future. The tests are not perfect, but used consistently they do give measure of how well students are learning what educators like Ms. Neal decided long ago they needed to know at each stage.

What Ms. Neal glosses over in her third paragraph is that despite all the listed efforts, the overall percentage of students scoring proficient or advanced on all CSAP tsts in the district has not significantly changed in the last decade. Nor have SAT, ACT or any other standardized test result changed. Whatever Ms. Neal says everyone is doing, academic outcomes for students as group are not changing. But, that is not surprising, the speed of cars on the highway does not change because of a radar gun, it changes because of the negative consequences from violating the standards. Ms. Neal, along with all the other board members have failed to develop the key link between a failure to improve student outcomes and a negative impact on the conditions of employment for each and every adult in the district. With no incentive to change what they are doing, why would anyone expect an adult to change what they are doing? If the adults don’t change what they are doing, then the outcomes are not going to change.

It is regretable that our leaders, like Mr. Penry and Ms. Neal, continue to focus on tweaking measures and decline to invite representatives of all groups to the table to discuss what mix of positive and negative impacts that are going to be put in place so that the adults change their actions to do what the students need so that all students learn to a higher level. After that happens, then test results will rise and then we can spend time and resources perfecting the measure.

By: RLaitres

RLaitres — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:58:52 +0000

Like many of the discussions dealing with all of the issues with which we are faced, nobody wants to ask or answer what it means to be “educated”, at least in the true sense of the term as defined by the ancient Greeks, and to an identical degree by our founders.
Why that is the case on the individual level, each person has to answer for her/himself. But, until we can face up to, and ask that central question, nothing of substance will ever be accomplished. Perhaps some, if we were to define “education” for them, might have to admit that, despite their diplomas and degrees, are not at all educated. Far too many of them went to school, not to obtain an education, but for the sole purpose of acquiring a skill to “make bucks”, to “be taught”, and considered by others to “be educated”, merely because they “passed a test.” If so, all of the time, monies, and effort, were a total waste.
Some believe they are “owed” an education. That is a fools delusion. Even if it were “owed”, it could never be paid. The reality is that it is impossible teach or educate any other person. Those who expect others to “teach” them, or “educate” them are wasting their time. Whatever it is, the individual will have to “learn” materials by him/herself if he/she ever expects to become educated. In starker terms, the individual has to “work (pardon the nasty term) for it.” Real knowledge, and education, cannot be “poured” into someones ear.
Another big impediment to anything on the issue of education ever being resolved is that it has, for the largest part, become just another industry. And, as we well know, that all too often serves those engaged in that industry. That includes parents, teachers, school administrators on the inside, as well as book publishers, construction companies and their employees, and any other supplier to that industry.

By: John B.

John B. — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:34:49 +0000

Way back in the dark ages when I was in elementary school in California we seemed to have had one test per year or two called Iowa Tests. They were very comprehensive but there was absolutely no preparation. They tested what you knew or could remember on the day of the test, which, by the way, took about half a day as I remember. Much on the test had not been covered specifically in class but you could figure it out anyway if you knew concepts that had been taught in class. Strangely, the kids that did the best on the test seemed to be the ones whose parents were well known to the teacher and most of whom participated in the PTA. The kids were not told the results of the test but the parents were. As my mother was a teacher, elsewhere, she knew from my teacher what the range of scores in my class was and found out about this insight about parental involvement, which she really already knew from her own classes. My point? I don’t think you can test to proficiency where you specifically try to ensure that the kids have facts that will be on the tests memorized through practice in preparation for the tests. I don’t think my generation of late Depression babies have been identified as being particularly deficient in it’s preparation for life. We seemed to have had an early good grounding in the basics and a pretty good overview of what our government was about, something of our history and an understanding of the need for cooperation in everything thing we do.
As best I can tell, my old classmates have succeeded or failed in their lives, based not mainly on their intellect but on the sort of nurturing and positive, loving family life they had in their formative years. Worldview is developed early in life and it makes a world of difference whether you view it as a place full of opportunity or a dangerous and unforgiving place full of threats to your very existence. Stop the frenzied testing as it is now done with the specific preparation using up valuable class time and get back to teaching about how to live a successful life as a human being rather than an economic robot and put far more time in getting parents involved. This isn’t the only thing needed for a good education but it is a hugely important building block.

By: Lynn

Lynn — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:45:22 +0000

continued. But really do you think all the hours these children and teachers spent drilling for the test and taking the test had any real meaning. Do you really think the data is reliable. I don’t think as an adult I could sit through the hours of drilling and testing these 8-10 year olds have had to endure over the last month. I’m sure the last week of it had the little ones thinking I can’t wait for this to be over so I can get out and play. We should really rethink the testing situation and come up with a test that is fair and accurate for the data analysis and get rid of the rest. I’m sure the teachers would love to get back to doing what they were trained to do teach.

By: Lynn

Lynn — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:36:09 +0000

Colorado leads the way in testing not so sure it’s something to be proud of. Do you even realize our 3rd, 4th and 5th grade students just spent 28 hours testing CSAP and NWEA. This doesn’t inclued the hours spent getting them ready to test and oh ya the 3rd graders still have one more to go a new one added to the district list DRA testing which for years has been done as a measure for 1st and 2nd grade only. 28 plus hours of lost instructional time. I dont know about you but I don’t think the last month was meaningful learning. I think there should be standards and accountability and a reasonable amount of testing but really.