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The April 13 letter to the editor regarding socialized medicine will hopefully encourage everyone to study bill Senate Bill 217.
Dr. James Schroeder is correct in his view of this bill. I was born and brought up in Canada and I can vouch for the fact that socialized medicine is a disaster should you have the misfortune of falling sick, need a doctor, operation or extended care.
It also, contrary to popular belief, does not come cheap. Canadians pay an inordinate price for a horrendous medical program.
Most of my family still living in Canada have horror stories they’ve endured due to socialized medicine. These stories are repeated over and over again by families from every walk of life, all across Canada.
MARJORIE OUELLETTE
Loma
43 Responses to “Canada’s socialized medicine is neither cheap nor efficient”
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 10:43 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Here we go again, “We’re not smart enough to provide good low-cost health care to all Americans!” Marjorie, you point is exactly what is wrong with America and regressives in particular.
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 10:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
hey, toaaronuu, instead of doggin the lady about her letter, why don’t you try to give some answers to the problem?….i’ve heard the same thing about canada’s socialized system for years….in fact, i’ve heard the same thing about MOST socialized health care systems….so again, why don’t you offer solutions instead of flaming?
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 11:05 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Not my field of expertise, ding-dong. There is, however, worth in pointing out the failings of stupid letters like that. You may have noticed that she didn’t offer any solutions either, only the prevailing (regressive) attitude that if Canada can’t do it, we can’t either. Personally, I have more faith in Americans than that. You wing-nuts wrap yourselves in the flag and call yourself patriots, but turn around and call America stupid. Go figure…
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 11:08 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
huh….well, i notice that tho she didn’t offer any solutions, neither did she make any statements towards anybody being stupid….from what i read, and yes, i AM literate, she’s saying that canada’s social healthcare system’s a failure…i AM in agreement with you that we CAN come up with a solution, but it isn’t going to happen as long as everybody sit’s there flaming each other…
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 11:16 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’m sorry to be mean, but I’m really sick of the “Look at the other systems” argument. While she didn’t call anyone stupid directly, the inference is that we are not as smart as canada, therefore we can’t make universal healthcare work. We HAVE to get over that!
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 11:24 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’m not so sure the Canadians *aren’t* in fact smarter than we are; look at who we’ve elected for the last 20 years or so. Although the whole round bacon thing is disturbing…..
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 11:39 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hmmm… Good point, curmudgeon.
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 12:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Canadian horror stories? Please do share a few tidbits, Miss Marjorie. I’d say an on-going U.S. horror story involves cubicle-dwelling imbeciles at large insurance companies who control the fate of daily health care and medical decisions over the telephone.
Is that what happens in Canada? Seems that it’s been proven repeatedly that Canadians enjoy lower mortality rates for all major medical issues and overall longer lifespans as compared to US residents. Could that possibly be a result of an equitable health-care system, one not controlled by insurance & drug companies, and one that isn’t 30 trillion dollars under water due to the bureaucratic nightmare known as Medicare? certainly we can do better, and we could learn a bit from other nations.
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 1:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Nigel, you took the words out of my mouth. Been doin a little research, came up with similar results as you. The horror stories in the U.S. are usually not of the “waiting in line for an aspirin” variety, but of the crushing financial burden getting hurt or sick can become. I got popped wiht a $30,000 bill for surgery on a broken leg. I was trying to pay off student loans and get out of debt so I could afford health insurance, broke my leg in a freak accident, and now I can’t afford to do either…
Posted April 15th, 2008 at 7:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It confuses me. Which Canada is Ms. Ouellette speaking of? As most of my own relatives are citizens of that country, some of them quite elderly and ailing, I have heard nary a complaint from them about their system. They get sick, they go see a doctor or go to the hospital, and their needs are addressed. I have never heard of a single one being turned away when “in need.” Is our system better, I don’t believe so. At least not in my experience. When dealing with a mild infection (I did not know it was mild), I searched high and low, from Montrose to Grand Juction looking for a doctor. Nary a one was to be found. Finally, I did manage to see a “nurse practioner” at a clinic, one that I might add who had a very serious attitude problem. (Perhaps disease and sick people depress her. If so, she might look for another occupation.) Fortunately, I am now taken care of by the Veterans Administration, and while some may have “complaints” about that, I personally have never had better medical care. Perhaps Ms. Ouellette and her family are “disappointed” in the service they have, and continue to receive from the Canadian system, is not a failure in the system itself, but rather that they expect every doctor or hospital to “drop everything” and be at their every “beck and call.” There are many who suffer from that malady.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 7:46 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, Canadas may be better than the US healthcare system, but they copied Great Britain, who copied… well one of those fabulous European nations, but my pick of the litter would be Cuiba.
The next time I need medical care, that’s where I’m headed.
‘Cause micheal moore said it was the best.
Anybody in need of healthcare and nary a doctor to be found can make the trip.
The trip will be good for you.
(and us)
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 8:17 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Name calling and persoanl derision?
“Not my field of expertise, ding-dong. There is, however, worth in pointing out the failings of stupid letters like that.”
“You wing-nuts wrap yourselves ”
You seem to think that “regressives” is a bad name.
Consider the following.
Before the “progressives” began playing with the healthcare system in this country, we had NONE of the problems we keep hearing about that need to be “fixed”.
“I got popped wiht a $30,000 bill for surgery on a broken leg. I was trying to pay off student loans and get out of debt so I could afford health insurance, broke my leg in a freak accident, and now I can’t afford to do either”
BUT! If the system were “fair”, money taken from MY POCKET would have paid for YOUR medical bills?
How “fair” woukd that be? And “HOW” would it be “fair”?
Steal from the producers and give to the failures that were too lazy to EARN what they want out of life?
What an awesome goal in life, get somebody else to take care of your lazy butt.
And if somebody presents an opposing viewpoint, call them names and use derision in an attempt to embarrass them into submission.
Such an intelligent position.
Y’all just hang in there now, ya hear?
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 8:22 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well said, Willis.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:03 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
ditto! very well put, Willis.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:04 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’ve been paying into the system for 23 years, wlj, you ass. You don’t mind sucking off the public teat, I guess socialized medicine is just fine for you. Who payed for your stinking wheelchair?
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:11 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
That was totally an unnecessary posting toaaronuu, You are out of line!!!
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:15 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I don’t want to hear it. willis is an ass, a bully, and a hypocrite. You can count yourself in there as well if you’re standing up for him.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:27 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I will stand up for anyone that I feel is being maligned. I do not always agree with Willis but do not feel the need to name call or attack in such a mean way because they don’t agree with me. You have the right to your opinion as does everyone else. Discuss, don’t be disgusting.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:33 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Not that I don’t think Willis can take care of himself, we all know he can. I was offended by your response and felt I needed to say something.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:41 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I won’t agree with name-calling, but it can be easily and factually said that Willis’ comments are hypocritical, particularly when it comes to that “name-calling”. He has rarely passed up on an opportunity to use name-calling when someone does not agree with him, or to use a simple, “you don’t know the FACTS” declaration, without enumerating his own facts, to assert himself in an argument. I do a healthy amount of arguing in this forum, to be sure, but I prefer to attack people’s opinions, rather than their persons. Sadly, when people approach an argument with close-minded self-righteousness, they often feel justified in making personal attacks.
So, go ahead and defend Willis if you like, just don’t disagree with him. That’s when it gets ugly.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 10:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Like I said, its okay for willis to use socialized medicine, whether its medicaire or the VA or both, but the rest of us are “lazy” thieves for wanting to realize some benefit from our taxes.
As far as name calling goes, turn-about is fair play.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 10:19 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I know, I know, but the “turnabout is fair play argument” is cyclical; you know that’s what he’ll use right? So at some point, you have to be the bigger man and not stoop to his level of discourse.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 10:29 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
dammit.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 10:39 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Indeed, enough of the Willis Show. Back to the main point: Marjorie O. is aping some line about the crap medical system in Canada, without any facts or evidence to substantiate her claim. Who knows where she’s coming from, or who wrote the letter for her. Willis apparently freely enjoys (and, at the same time, refuses to acknowledge) our very own version of socialized medicine in form of VA benefits. Call a spade a spade. And, call our total healthcare system a massive train wreck that requires urgent care. Forget about Social Security - it’s only $7 trillion in the hole. Medicare is $30 trillion in the red. That’s negative $30,000,000,000,000.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 12:31 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
If anybody watched Frontline on PBS last night (Tuesday) they would have seen a good overview of how a number of countries handle health care. First, Willis, you do know that in the UK the system is, indeed, pure socialism, do you not? How did it happen that Canada copied that system the UK has and wound up with providers being private? All of them. Finally, Taiwan looked at all systems around the world and pieced together their system from what they considered to be best practices which is state of the art, universal and appreciated by all citizens even though some have paid in more than they took out, if you consider a snapshot in time. They realize that until the day of their death they may have occasion to have huge expenditures that will even things out, or they may even “come out ahead”. That’s the nature of insurance and the peace of mind it gives. Alas,the system is in deficit because politicians are reluctant to raise the premiums people have to pay for fear that people would rebel. Even in Taiwan, it seems, people are reluctant to pay for what they get. Sound familiar? Our “system” is a travesty and can hardly be called a system when so many are left out and there’s little rationality in differences experienced by one individual from another. Do you pay in for any insurance you get–assuming you buy insurance of one kind or another–exactly what you get back out of it in money or do you expect to come out ahead, except for whatever value you place on peace of mind? If you come out ahead, somebody else has participated in financing your good fortune. Willis, whatever assistance you have received from govenmental programs, should I feel you have imposed on me financially or do you figure your taxes, alone, and whatever out-of-pocket expenses you have had constituted “paying your own way” so that you didn’t either under or over-pay? Insurance is a neccessity and it is the ultimate realization that we are all in this together and sometimes we are the recipient of the help of others and sometimes we contribute to help others.
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 8:53 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Poor little person…
“toaaronuu
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:04 am PM This User Report this comment
I’ve been paying into the system for 23 years, wlj, you ass. You don’t mind sucking off the public teat, I guess socialized medicine is just fine for you. Who payed for your stinking wheelchair?”
I paid into the system a lot longer than that child. AND I provided for my own medical needs, as well as any insurance I felt was necessary.
And I’M “sucking off the public teat”?
Cite your source of information and I’ll show you an ignorant ass that lies through his/her teeth.
My wheel chair does not “stink”, and I paid for it.
“toaaronuu
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:15 am PM This User Report this comment
I don’t want to hear it. willis is an ass, a bully, and a hypocrite. You can count yourself in there as well if you’re standing up for him.”
Cite your source of information.
Or is it merely the opinion of a descendent of a lesser ape?
You do realize that there are apes with a much higher intellectual capacity than you have shown?
“toaaronuu
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 10:01 am PM This User Report this comment
Like I said, its okay for willis to use socialized medicine, whether its medicaire or the VA or both, but the rest of us are “lazy” thieves for wanting to realize some benefit from our taxes.
As far as name calling goes, turn-about is fair play.”
If you don’t want to be a “lazy thief”, then stop trying to steal from the producers of this nation and become self reliant.
The fact that I SERVED MY country, does in no way require me to “depend” on the VA system for any or all of my medical needs.
Nor does it mean that I “suck at the public treat” (and yes, the ‘r’ is deliberate and intentional.)
”
Curmudgeon
Posted April 16th, 2008 at 9:41 am PM This User Report this comment
I won’t agree with name-calling, but it can be easily and factually said that Willis’ comments are hypocritical, particularly when it comes to that “name-calling”. He has rarely passed up on an opportunity to use name-calling when someone does not agree with him, or to use a simple, “you don’t know the FACTS” declaration, without enumerating his own facts,
”
Actuall curm, I do provide very specific facts, rela, researchable, provable facts.
Then when the name calling and whining rhetoric begins, I DEMAND that my facts be refuted or proven to be false.
So far, non of the whiner crowd has ever refuted, or offered ‘facts’ of their own to respond.
They just keep throwing out names and garbage posing as intelligent responses.
The ’super educated’ one attacked President Bush and his administration for economic problems caused by thre formation of the federal reserve system.
I suggested he do a little research to discover the root of the problem and get back to us on the issue.
I do declare, the gnashing of teeth, temper tantrums, cry-baby sniffling would have embarrassed a spoiled 3 year old, but still no “facts” about the 16th Amendment.
Why is that?
REAL facts cause problems for his irrational position?
HONEST research too difficult a task for him to accomplish?
What seems to be the problem here anyway?
Moe name calling and baggy eyes from crying yourself to sleep is sure to follow.
In the meantime, to get back on topic.
Socialized medicine is only paid by those people not too lazy to provide for themselves.
So, by demanding that I pay for your medical needs is an admission that you are just too lazy and self-centered to take care of yourselves.
Posted April 17th, 2008 at 9:37 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis, when the universal health insurance issue is finally passed, you can opt out. Just don’t come whining back when you run upon hard times. No more safety net except for those who pay their premiums. Hope you have enough bucks saved up to cover any eventuality. Otherwise, suffer alone. That probably suits you since you seem to have no social consciousness whatever. You are truly a sad human being and are to be pitied. And please tell us, comprehensively, what the 16th Amendment and the Federal Reserve have to do with any of the things you bitch about. That should be an interesting expose’ of just how poisoned your mind really is.
Posted April 17th, 2008 at 9:38 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
A delusional ass, bully, and hypocrite.
Posted April 17th, 2008 at 9:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh, come on, now, he’s not a bully. He’s typing on an internet forum. If anything, the hostility, condescension and hyper-aggressive stances of his posts reveal quite the contrary. The internet is notorious for letting us live out online what we can’t in our real lives.
As for me? I’m not nearly as smart and logical as I like to think I am.
Posted April 17th, 2008 at 11:41 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
On second thought, Willis, as The Foutainhead of knowledge of all that’s right and wrong with the world the rest of us live in, you need to stop depriving the rest of the readers in western Colorado of the print Sentinel of the magificence and wonderfulness of your amazing mind. Write some letters that can be published so your prescriptions for society are there for all to see, appreciate and learn from. You will, of course have to come from behind your Land of Oz curtain of anonymity and provide a verifiable name, address and telephone number. Whoever you are, you can do that,can’t you? Be a man, or a Superman, if you prefer and let’s see you get beyond the simplistic, sound- bite,incipient, angry challenging world of posts we are all used to seeing. Your vast knowledge should not be limited to only those few who read this blog. Go for it! Get out into the world beyond your front door. Let people know who and what you are. If your insecurities preclude that, we will still enjoy your posts for the comedy relief they provide in our sometimes hum-drum days.
Posted April 17th, 2008 at 8:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Yup, just as I predicted.
More name calling and gnashing of teeth, but no rational refutation of my arguments.
So, which one of you geniuses carries the doctorate?
Poor children, nothing soft and mushy for their brains to chew on, just big old hard facts that they are incapable of digesting…
Posted April 17th, 2008 at 10:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis, actual letter writing to explain your warped view of the world is beyond your ability? I don’t respond to sound bites when an explanation of complex things requires lengthy explanatons that would go way over your head and then just be countered with more sound bites and smart sss comments and character assasination. Maybe when you grow up you’ll deserve an actual dialog with facts but right now any facts will be disputed by you with nonsense with your warped view of the world and people with actual intelligence. I’ll talk to you when you can do so with civility. By the way, you didn’t answer my questions. Remember, what’s your bitch with the Federal Reserve and how does that tie in with the 16th amendment and the IRS? It’s a one way street with you, isn’t it
Posted April 18th, 2008 at 5:30 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I understand now—its ok for john b to and his cronies to attack everyones character, belittle them, demean them and call them names but by God nobody better do it back to them!
Posted April 18th, 2008 at 9:13 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
John B.
You never cease to amaze me. The question still stands, John, will you be there to speak for Dave Kearsley,(Candidate for County Commissioner) if he is elected? Ignoring this question will not make it go away. The hypocrisy of your last posts defines your credibility. Your loss of anonymity was a direct result of your attack on the Blue Star Moms. Now you are attacking the disabled. I will pray for you.
A word of wisdom, WLJ, to best a fool and hypocrite is not an accomplishment, it is simply an exercise in futility. You’re obviously just upsetting John B. It’s all about finesse, and presentation. Hook ‘em twice and let ‘em dangle.
Posted April 18th, 2008 at 5:49 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh golly mr borgen, yer such a smaarrrt person, cause you siad
“Willis, when the universal health insurance issue is finally passed, you can opt out. Just don’t come whining back when you run upon hard times.”
Does this mean that I get to opt out of paying for your medical bills too?
How come is it that you think because you descended from monkeys that you are on a level playing field with me when my ancestors have always been HUMAN?
Oh, and the next time we run into each other in person and you call me “Bill” because twice I have corrected you and you’re still not smart enough to get it right, I may feel the urge to get your attention long enough for you to get my name right.
SOCIALISTS!!! too damned stupid to pay attention.
Posted April 18th, 2008 at 6:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Just for the record, WILLIS, I’ve never met you in person that I’m aware of and I’ve never called you Bill, either in print nor in person.
Posted April 18th, 2008 at 6:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Poor john, his record’s broken.
And yes, you have, but you seemed to like me because I treated you like a normal person.
I showed respect for your opinions and gave you the answers you were hoping for because I see no need to let you make an ass of yourself in public.
Here you can, and do, on a regular basis, and I get to sit back and laugh to my hearts content.
It’s a “warm and fuzzy” thing….
Thank You.
Posted April 18th, 2008 at 6:20 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh, I missed this on the first ‘ignore johns drivel’ scan.
“You will, of course have to come from behind your Land of Oz curtain of anonymity and provide a verifiable name, address and telephone number”
OK, here ya go.
Mostly from an earlier post in a different thread.
So, you think I’m anonymous?
I’m not listed in the phone book, because I choose not to be listed.
While I can be located on the internet, if you know where to look, the information is not readily available because the people that need to know me, already do know me.
Anybody that I feel needs to know me, I will invite them into my circle of acquaintances.
Here’s a hint; my middle initial may, or may not, be “L”.
The rest is correct.
Maybe I stay unobserved on the sidelines for a reason.
I pay my bills.
I pay my taxes.
My neighbors like me.
My fellow church members like me.
The people I meet on the street like me. But to them I’m “anonymous” because they don’t know my name or anything about me.
I don’t get telemarketers, or junk mail.
Unwanted solicitors do not come to my door.
I run my business, EARN my profit, and MIND MY OWN BUSINESS.
I do not tell other people how to live their lives, or spend their money.
If you want some of my money, offer me goods or services that I need or want.
Try to force money from my pocket into yours by government fiat, expect me to be disagreeable.
And you really don’t like me much because I know more than you on about any subject you care to choose. But now I’m just bragging.
No, wait, if you can prove it, it’s not bragging, it’s just stating facts…
Have a nice day.
Posted June 25th, 2008 at 3:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Socialized medicine offers lifetime health care in exchange for a lifetime of taxes and operates on the premis that health care is a human right and not a priviledge. Having been to Britain and Canada I can say it’s not hard to find people with complaints about their respective health care systems but they are all unanimous and not wanting a US style system. As to the woman in Loma, why don’t her unhappy Canadian relatives come down here and pay cash for what they need? Could it be they can’t afford insurance or don’t have much money?
Posted June 25th, 2008 at 4:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ - You ARE anonymous to everyone except yourself.
Posted June 25th, 2008 at 4:20 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I wouldn’t want Canada’s system but we sure could use SOME improvement in our own. I would like to be able to be self employed, start a small business or work for one, but the need for affordable good health insurance means I am limited to working for a large company.
Posted June 25th, 2008 at 4:29 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Having observed at close range the health care systems of Germany and Scandinavia as part of my professional responsibilities as worldwide head of research, development and clinical studies for a large pharma co. I can tell you that their system makes ours look sick (which it is). Their medical outcomes in just about every area of medicine are among the top 5 in the world (often 1 or 2). Ours rank us last in the 25 developed nations and make us look like a third world country. There may be a few complaints which I did not hear (there are always are people who complain) but I would take their system in a minute. People who can afford medical care in this country get treatment as good as any place in the world. But the 40 million or so of U.S. citizens who cannot afford health insurance often get no care whatsoever.
Posted June 25th, 2008 at 5:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
That’s right Classof52, they don’t. The problem here is the “for profit” health insurance companies. They add to the cost of health care and complicate access to it. A sick or injured person is not a widget for generating profit. These HMOs and other private entities have to go away.
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