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	<title>Comments on: Global warming denier is no expert</title>
	<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/</link>
	<description>Grand Junction, Colorado's community Web site, discussions, forums, message boards, wiki and more.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: toaaronuu</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1459</link>
		<dc:creator>toaaronuu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1459</guid>
		<description>Everyone should read the wiki on scientific consensus. Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus
For those of you who wish to question the credibility of wikipedia, please read the entry first, and then direct any objections to the proper wikipedia channel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone should read the wiki on scientific consensus. Here&#8217;s the link: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus</a><br />
For those of you who wish to question the credibility of wikipedia, please read the entry first, and then direct any objections to the proper wikipedia channel.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1457</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1457</guid>
		<description>That climate fluctuates is neither denied by scientists nor does it have much bearing on our current situation.  A delicate system it is, with much natural variability for sure.  Yes, temperatures have been both warmer and cooler in the past.  How, exactly, does that relate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That climate fluctuates is neither denied by scientists nor does it have much bearing on our current situation.  A delicate system it is, with much natural variability for sure.  Yes, temperatures have been both warmer and cooler in the past.  How, exactly, does that relate?</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel_Spumoni</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1456</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel_Spumoni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1456</guid>
		<description>Brandon – here’s some key data for you to ponder. Indeed, we did hit a temperature record in 1998....but, tied that same number in 2007. The upward trends (in temp/CO2/CH4/etc.) are very well documented and very well defined. There simply is no disagreement regarding the empirical data. 

The only disagreement, sadly enough, involves emotions &#38; politics, driven primarily by large extractive industries and their footsoldiers willing to protect the status quo at any cost. Including the pending demise of human civilization. Read:
       
1. Global surface temperatures have increased about 0.74°C (plus or minus 0.18°C) since the late-19th century, and the linear trend for the past 50 years of 0.13°C (plus or minus 0.03°C) per decade is nearly twice that for the past 100 years. The warming has not been globally uniform. Some areas (including parts of the southeastern U.S. and parts of the North Atlantic) have, in fact, cooled slightly over the last century. The recent warmth has been greatest over North America and Eurasia between 40 and 70°N. Lastly, seven of the eight warmest years on record have occurred since 2001 and the 10 warmest years have all occurred since 1995. (NOAA)

2. Climatologists at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York City have found that 2007 tied with 1998 for Earth’s second warmest year in a century. (NASA)

3. Global mean sea level has been rising at an average rate of 1.7 mm/year (plus or minus 0.5mm) over the past 100 years, which is significantly larger than the rate averaged over the last several thousand years. (NOAA)

4. Pre-industrial levels of carbon dioxide (prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution) were about 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv), and current levels are greater than 380 ppmv and increasing at a rate of 1.9 ppm yr-1 since 2000. The global concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere today far exceeds the natural range over the last 650,000 years of 180 to 300 ppmv. According to the IPCC Special Report on Emission Scenarios (SRES), by the end of the 21st century, we could expect to see carbon dioxide concentrations of anywhere from 490 to 1260 ppm (75-350% above the pre-industrial concentration). (NOAA)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandon – here’s some key data for you to ponder. Indeed, we did hit a temperature record in 1998&#8230;.but, tied that same number in 2007. The upward trends (in temp/CO2/CH4/etc.) are very well documented and very well defined. There simply is no disagreement regarding the empirical data. </p>
<p>The only disagreement, sadly enough, involves emotions &amp; politics, driven primarily by large extractive industries and their footsoldiers willing to protect the status quo at any cost. Including the pending demise of human civilization. Read:</p>
<p>1. Global surface temperatures have increased about 0.74°C (plus or minus 0.18°C) since the late-19th century, and the linear trend for the past 50 years of 0.13°C (plus or minus 0.03°C) per decade is nearly twice that for the past 100 years. The warming has not been globally uniform. Some areas (including parts of the southeastern U.S. and parts of the North Atlantic) have, in fact, cooled slightly over the last century. The recent warmth has been greatest over North America and Eurasia between 40 and 70°N. Lastly, seven of the eight warmest years on record have occurred since 2001 and the 10 warmest years have all occurred since 1995. (NOAA)</p>
<p>2. Climatologists at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York City have found that 2007 tied with 1998 for Earth’s second warmest year in a century. (NASA)</p>
<p>3. Global mean sea level has been rising at an average rate of 1.7 mm/year (plus or minus 0.5mm) over the past 100 years, which is significantly larger than the rate averaged over the last several thousand years. (NOAA)</p>
<p>4. Pre-industrial levels of carbon dioxide (prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution) were about 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv), and current levels are greater than 380 ppmv and increasing at a rate of 1.9 ppm yr-1 since 2000. The global concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere today far exceeds the natural range over the last 650,000 years of 180 to 300 ppmv. According to the IPCC Special Report on Emission Scenarios (SRES), by the end of the 21st century, we could expect to see carbon dioxide concentrations of anywhere from 490 to 1260 ppm (75-350% above the pre-industrial concentration). (NOAA)</p>
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		<title>By: Willis_Leon_Johnson</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1455</link>
		<dc:creator>Willis_Leon_Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1455</guid>
		<description>oh now oliver, perhaps you just need to sit back and relax.

In fact, while you're sitting back and relaxing, why not go back and read (I know it will be tough for someone of your "apparent level of knowledge.") posts #13 and 14.

Then get back to us on exactly how your comments furthered the conversation.

You meet none of your own standards.

Therefore you are a drag on civil discourse.

And, if you do not like my choice of words, talk to Mr. Laitres, it's nearly verbatim from one of his unnecessary assaults on other posters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh now oliver, perhaps you just need to sit back and relax.</p>
<p>In fact, while you&#8217;re sitting back and relaxing, why not go back and read (I know it will be tough for someone of your &#8220;apparent level of knowledge.&#8221;) posts #13 and 14.</p>
<p>Then get back to us on exactly how your comments furthered the conversation.</p>
<p>You meet none of your own standards.</p>
<p>Therefore you are a drag on civil discourse.</p>
<p>And, if you do not like my choice of words, talk to Mr. Laitres, it&#8217;s nearly verbatim from one of his unnecessary assaults on other posters.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1453</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1453</guid>
		<description>The frequency of my posts is minuscule compared with the shear number of yours, dear sir.  I am confident in the accuracy of my sources.  Please refute one if you feel differently, otherwise I must conclude that you are merely projecting what is true about yourself onto others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The frequency of my posts is minuscule compared with the shear number of yours, dear sir.  I am confident in the accuracy of my sources.  Please refute one if you feel differently, otherwise I must conclude that you are merely projecting what is true about yourself onto others.</p>
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		<title>By: Willis_Leon_Johnson</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1450</link>
		<dc:creator>Willis_Leon_Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1450</guid>
		<description>Were Oliver to be  better informed, first by checking the accuracy of his sources, as well as gaining some appreciation of subject matter, he might have some basis to speak on issues, as well as requesting of others that they remain “quiet”. 

It is apparent that he is in possession of neither. 

Given the frequency and shallowness of his posts, one can readily conclude that, like most in their situation, h believes the number of sounds they utter, or the number of words he uses, makes him appear “intelligent.” 

Actually, it does the exact opposite, much as one would not consider the “babbling” of an infant “words of wisdom.” 

It is most frequently those lacking in knowledge and understanding who use the most words, perhaps to cover the absence of both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were Oliver to be  better informed, first by checking the accuracy of his sources, as well as gaining some appreciation of subject matter, he might have some basis to speak on issues, as well as requesting of others that they remain “quiet”. </p>
<p>It is apparent that he is in possession of neither. </p>
<p>Given the frequency and shallowness of his posts, one can readily conclude that, like most in their situation, h believes the number of sounds they utter, or the number of words he uses, makes him appear “intelligent.” </p>
<p>Actually, it does the exact opposite, much as one would not consider the “babbling” of an infant “words of wisdom.” </p>
<p>It is most frequently those lacking in knowledge and understanding who use the most words, perhaps to cover the absence of both.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1449</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1449</guid>
		<description>I suggest you sign up for some more better classes.  There really is no way to  answer your questions based on your apparent level of knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suggest you sign up for some more better classes.  There really is no way to  answer your questions based on your apparent level of knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: brandon_wsc</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1446</link>
		<dc:creator>brandon_wsc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1446</guid>
		<description>Temperatures went down from 1940 to 1970. What caused that? Human carbon emmisions? Or could it have possibly been a natural trend? We hit a record in 1998 and it has gone down since. We have had several ice ages, including a "little ice age" in the 1500's and then had warming periods between. There were no carbon emissions then....why did the globe warm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Temperatures went down from 1940 to 1970. What caused that? Human carbon emmisions? Or could it have possibly been a natural trend? We hit a record in 1998 and it has gone down since. We have had several ice ages, including a &#8220;little ice age&#8221; in the 1500&#8217;s and then had warming periods between. There were no carbon emissions then&#8230;.why did the globe warm?</p>
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		<title>By: Willis_Leon_Johnson</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1432</link>
		<dc:creator>Willis_Leon_Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1432</guid>
		<description>From the following "cut&#38;pastes" from this thread, I have a question.

"“A consensus, based on current evidence, now exists within the global scientific community that human activities are the main source of climate change and that the burning of fossil fuels is largely responsible for driving this change.”"

"“The supposed ‘global cooling’ consensus among scientists in the 1970s — frequently offered by global-warming skeptics as proof that climatologists can’t make up their minds — is a myth, according to a survey of the scientific literature of the era."

"“…global cooling was never more than a minor aspect of the scientific climate change literature of the era, let alone the scientific consensus…”."

"the primary use of the myth is in the context of attempting to undermine public belief in and support for the contemporary scientific consensus about anthropogenic climate change by appeal to a past “consensus” on a closely related topic that is alleged to have been wrong "

"toaaronuu
Posted April 25th, 2008 at 10:09 am  PM This User  Report this comment  

Yeah, it shows up differently on the wiki, but still, the consensus is overwhelming."

"The supposed “global cooling” consensus among scientists in the 1970s — frequently offered by global-warming skeptics as proof that climatologists can’t make up their minds — is a myth, according to a survey of the scientific literature of the era."

"The study reports, “There was no scientific consensus in the 1970s that the Earth was headed into an imminent ice age."

---- I'm somewhat at a loss here, so I need help.

"Consensus" is the same as proven scientific fact?

Now I know that's only a minor little detail, but my world is surrounded with minor little details.

So I really do need an honest, concise non-refutable answer on this question.

Thanks in advance.

Willis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the following &#8220;cut&amp;pastes&#8221; from this thread, I have a question.</p>
<p>&#8220;“A consensus, based on current evidence, now exists within the global scientific community that human activities are the main source of climate change and that the burning of fossil fuels is largely responsible for driving this change.”&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;“The supposed ‘global cooling’ consensus among scientists in the 1970s — frequently offered by global-warming skeptics as proof that climatologists can’t make up their minds — is a myth, according to a survey of the scientific literature of the era.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;“…global cooling was never more than a minor aspect of the scientific climate change literature of the era, let alone the scientific consensus…”.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;the primary use of the myth is in the context of attempting to undermine public belief in and support for the contemporary scientific consensus about anthropogenic climate change by appeal to a past “consensus” on a closely related topic that is alleged to have been wrong &#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;toaaronuu<br />
Posted April 25th, 2008 at 10:09 am  PM This User  Report this comment  </p>
<p>Yeah, it shows up differently on the wiki, but still, the consensus is overwhelming.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The supposed “global cooling” consensus among scientists in the 1970s — frequently offered by global-warming skeptics as proof that climatologists can’t make up their minds — is a myth, according to a survey of the scientific literature of the era.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The study reports, “There was no scientific consensus in the 1970s that the Earth was headed into an imminent ice age.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;- I&#8217;m somewhat at a loss here, so I need help.</p>
<p>&#8220;Consensus&#8221; is the same as proven scientific fact?</p>
<p>Now I know that&#8217;s only a minor little detail, but my world is surrounded with minor little details.</p>
<p>So I really do need an honest, concise non-refutable answer on this question.</p>
<p>Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>Willis</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1430</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/24/global-warming-denier-is-no-expert/#comment-1430</guid>
		<description>Study debunks 'global cooling' concern of '70s

By Doyle Rice, USA TODAY
The supposed "global cooling" consensus among scientists in the 1970s — frequently offered by global-warming skeptics as proof that climatologists can't make up their minds — is a myth, according to a survey of the scientific literature of the era.

The '70s was an unusually cold decade. Newsweek, Time, The New York Times and National Geographic published articles at the time speculating on the causes of the unusual cold and about the possibility of a new ice age.

But Thomas Peterson of the National Climatic Data Center surveyed dozens of peer-reviewed scientific articles from 1965 to 1979 and found that only seven supported global cooling, while 44 predicted warming. Peterson says 20 others were neutral in their assessments of climate trends.

The study reports, "There was no scientific consensus in the 1970s that the Earth was headed into an imminent ice age.

"A review of the literature suggests that, to the contrary, greenhouse warming even then dominated scientists' thinking about the most important forces shaping Earth's climate on human time scales."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Study debunks &#8216;global cooling&#8217; concern of &#8217;70s</p>
<p>By Doyle Rice, USA TODAY<br />
The supposed &#8220;global cooling&#8221; consensus among scientists in the 1970s — frequently offered by global-warming skeptics as proof that climatologists can&#8217;t make up their minds — is a myth, according to a survey of the scientific literature of the era.</p>
<p>The &#8217;70s was an unusually cold decade. Newsweek, Time, The New York Times and National Geographic published articles at the time speculating on the causes of the unusual cold and about the possibility of a new ice age.</p>
<p>But Thomas Peterson of the National Climatic Data Center surveyed dozens of peer-reviewed scientific articles from 1965 to 1979 and found that only seven supported global cooling, while 44 predicted warming. Peterson says 20 others were neutral in their assessments of climate trends.</p>
<p>The study reports, &#8220;There was no scientific consensus in the 1970s that the Earth was headed into an imminent ice age.</p>
<p>&#8220;A review of the literature suggests that, to the contrary, greenhouse warming even then dominated scientists&#8217; thinking about the most important forces shaping Earth&#8217;s climate on human time scales.&#8221;</p>
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