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	<title>Comments on: Fair Tax would give transparence in government spending</title>
	<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/</link>
	<description>Grand Junction, Colorado's community Web site, discussions, forums, message boards and more.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Proteus</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-2307</link>
		<dc:creator>Proteus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-2307</guid>
		<description>Jacobgunter - What in the world does being "pro-choice" have to do with the subject at hand? You also make the ludicrous assumption that all Democrats are pro-choice. Believing that a woman has the right to control what happens to her own body crosses all political and religious lines and is the position held by a clear majority of the American people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacobgunter - What in the world does being &#8220;pro-choice&#8221; have to do with the subject at hand? You also make the ludicrous assumption that all Democrats are pro-choice. Believing that a woman has the right to control what happens to her own body crosses all political and religious lines and is the position held by a clear majority of the American people.</p>
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		<title>By: hitekredneck</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-2304</link>
		<dc:creator>hitekredneck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-2304</guid>
		<description>very well put, jacob, but don't hold your breath awaiting a reply from rl...even if he does reply, he'll utilize double-speak and is more prone to debate with insults and accusations rather than fact....the only problem i forsee with the fairtax, is getting people to use common sense and get it voted in</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very well put, jacob, but don&#8217;t hold your breath awaiting a reply from rl&#8230;even if he does reply, he&#8217;ll utilize double-speak and is more prone to debate with insults and accusations rather than fact&#8230;.the only problem i forsee with the fairtax, is getting people to use common sense and get it voted in</p>
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		<title>By: jacobgunter</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-2290</link>
		<dc:creator>jacobgunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 05:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-2290</guid>
		<description>RL, First off, you should read the new book that the fairtax founders created. It answers all of your critisims. 

Moving on. You are using some serious doublespeak. to call an equal tax regressive is incompetant. A regressive system is one that we have now. a true progressive tax would be either a fair or flat tax, one that treats each person individually, not one that gives more power to the government, which is regressive since historically that is what was in control. 

You also seem to think its progressive to make the successful and responsible people pay for everything. Tell me, why is it that we should legalize theft and communism just because its what the mob wants? Nowhere in the constitution does it say that the wealthy have an obligation to pay for the plight of others. 

BTW, you like the "progressive" tax system a lot. Are you aware that the second most important policy that Karl Marx believed in to found communism is a progressive tax system that will lead to a 100% tax on everyone? (this was just after the abolishing of private property) way to go with supporting Marxist theory. Nice

Moving on, the fairtax does help people in need. You obviously forgot about the prebate. The thing that makes it possible for those below the poverty line can live well enough. 

You also clearly hate economic succes on the grounds of hard work. Is there some laziness in your life, it seems that you wouyld prefer to sit at home and expect others to take care of you while you vote in politicians that promise you more stolen moeny.

You seem like a democrat, which is fine, so I would assume you are pro-choice. Why hold a double standard? You want social freedom, but you want to limit economic choice. With the fairtax, taxes become voluntary since you dont HAVE to spend money in the free market. 

You also seem to think that the revenue that our government needs will go away since everyone will be taxed at an equal rate. Granted, its the same rate, but consider that the rich consume more and spend more, therefore, they will still contribute a large portion to the government. Also consider the rampant growth of foreign companies investing in a US that doesnt tax their earnings, but only their goods. Many economists believe that oversea jobs will come here and we can literally compete with China as a manufacturer. More moeny and spending, means more tax revenue from the fairtax. The economy grows, tax revenue grows, and then we can move to further help the world with that moeny. 

WHy you are against this is beyond me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RL, First off, you should read the new book that the fairtax founders created. It answers all of your critisims. </p>
<p>Moving on. You are using some serious doublespeak. to call an equal tax regressive is incompetant. A regressive system is one that we have now. a true progressive tax would be either a fair or flat tax, one that treats each person individually, not one that gives more power to the government, which is regressive since historically that is what was in control. </p>
<p>You also seem to think its progressive to make the successful and responsible people pay for everything. Tell me, why is it that we should legalize theft and communism just because its what the mob wants? Nowhere in the constitution does it say that the wealthy have an obligation to pay for the plight of others. </p>
<p>BTW, you like the &#8220;progressive&#8221; tax system a lot. Are you aware that the second most important policy that Karl Marx believed in to found communism is a progressive tax system that will lead to a 100% tax on everyone? (this was just after the abolishing of private property) way to go with supporting Marxist theory. Nice</p>
<p>Moving on, the fairtax does help people in need. You obviously forgot about the prebate. The thing that makes it possible for those below the poverty line can live well enough. </p>
<p>You also clearly hate economic succes on the grounds of hard work. Is there some laziness in your life, it seems that you wouyld prefer to sit at home and expect others to take care of you while you vote in politicians that promise you more stolen moeny.</p>
<p>You seem like a democrat, which is fine, so I would assume you are pro-choice. Why hold a double standard? You want social freedom, but you want to limit economic choice. With the fairtax, taxes become voluntary since you dont HAVE to spend money in the free market. </p>
<p>You also seem to think that the revenue that our government needs will go away since everyone will be taxed at an equal rate. Granted, its the same rate, but consider that the rich consume more and spend more, therefore, they will still contribute a large portion to the government. Also consider the rampant growth of foreign companies investing in a US that doesnt tax their earnings, but only their goods. Many economists believe that oversea jobs will come here and we can literally compete with China as a manufacturer. More moeny and spending, means more tax revenue from the fairtax. The economy grows, tax revenue grows, and then we can move to further help the world with that moeny. </p>
<p>WHy you are against this is beyond me.</p>
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		<title>By: hitekredneck</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1643</link>
		<dc:creator>hitekredneck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1643</guid>
		<description>and i'm still waiting for rl's reply to this with baited breath...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and i&#8217;m still waiting for rl&#8217;s reply to this with baited breath&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1617</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1617</guid>
		<description>Well, that was productive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that was productive.</p>
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		<title>By: Willis_Leon_Johnson</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1615</link>
		<dc:creator>Willis_Leon_Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1615</guid>
		<description>Hitekredneck,
I hereby do sincerely apologize for crawling below the gutter to his level.

I shall attempt to do better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitekredneck,<br />
I hereby do sincerely apologize for crawling below the gutter to his level.</p>
<p>I shall attempt to do better.</p>
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		<title>By: hitekredneck</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1611</link>
		<dc:creator>hitekredneck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1611</guid>
		<description>willis, i agree with most of your stances...however, as long as you and rl continue to denigrate each other with personal attacks and insults, these debates will start to stifle...i enjoy this board very much, but am disheartened by the vitriol thrown about as well as the lack of courtesy shown....i understand the need to defend oneself, but to continue a discussion in that way is detrimental to the debate at hand which, in this case, is the fair tax...i really would appreciate at least one debate without the insults to a person's character while putting forth evidence on the subject at hand...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>willis, i agree with most of your stances&#8230;however, as long as you and rl continue to denigrate each other with personal attacks and insults, these debates will start to stifle&#8230;i enjoy this board very much, but am disheartened by the vitriol thrown about as well as the lack of courtesy shown&#8230;.i understand the need to defend oneself, but to continue a discussion in that way is detrimental to the debate at hand which, in this case, is the fair tax&#8230;i really would appreciate at least one debate without the insults to a person&#8217;s character while putting forth evidence on the subject at hand&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Willis_Leon_Johnson</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1608</link>
		<dc:creator>Willis_Leon_Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1608</guid>
		<description>mr. laitres,
If you desire "facts" about the true costs of illegal immigration I would direct you to previous post on that very subject on this very same board.

There you will find more real, researchable, provable, honest, reliable facts than you are capable of comprehending in one sitting.

The problem with those facts are:

 "- If someone tells me something, I will first make the effort to first, think about what he/she said is true and accurate. 

If something I did not know, that does not make the other person “elitist”, all it does is point out my own ignorance (a malady with which we are all afflicted, and in more areas than those in which we are proficient), that I did not know it, especially when I should have already been aware of it. 

My denying something, merely because I do not wish to admit it, does nothing but insure that I will remain ignorant. 
That, at least to this individual, would mean that, not only would I remain in that state, but have lowered myself to the level of stupidity. 

After all, one is not “stupid” but by virtue of choosing to remain in a state of ignorance.-" 

 -- quoted from "RLaitres Posted April 20th, 2008 at 5:51 pm "

Now, would you care to stay on topic as much as possible and stop trying to distract other posters with your name calling and character assassination attempts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mr. laitres,<br />
If you desire &#8220;facts&#8221; about the true costs of illegal immigration I would direct you to previous post on that very subject on this very same board.</p>
<p>There you will find more real, researchable, provable, honest, reliable facts than you are capable of comprehending in one sitting.</p>
<p>The problem with those facts are:</p>
<p> &#8220;- If someone tells me something, I will first make the effort to first, think about what he/she said is true and accurate. </p>
<p>If something I did not know, that does not make the other person “elitist”, all it does is point out my own ignorance (a malady with which we are all afflicted, and in more areas than those in which we are proficient), that I did not know it, especially when I should have already been aware of it. </p>
<p>My denying something, merely because I do not wish to admit it, does nothing but insure that I will remain ignorant.<br />
That, at least to this individual, would mean that, not only would I remain in that state, but have lowered myself to the level of stupidity. </p>
<p>After all, one is not “stupid” but by virtue of choosing to remain in a state of ignorance.-&#8221; </p>
<p> &#8212; quoted from &#8220;RLaitres Posted April 20th, 2008 at 5:51 pm &#8221;</p>
<p>Now, would you care to stay on topic as much as possible and stop trying to distract other posters with your name calling and character assassination attempts?</p>
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		<title>By: hitekredneck</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1607</link>
		<dc:creator>hitekredneck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1607</guid>
		<description>rl, i resent you intimating that i am racist.  "The reason for not providing amounts or statistics is probably because they have none and, it may be that it is not the “cost” that bothers most such people but rather “race”. this statement is completely out of line, sir, and i've neverhad a problem with the color of a persons' skin.  what i do have a problem with, is the fact that millions of people, not just mexican, are breaking the law with what appears to be immunity from prosecution.  what i have a problem with is the refusal to learn the language of the country that they choose to move to.  no, i don't have statistics, because of the nature of the issue.  i would suggest, sir, rather than attacking my morals, that you address the issue at hand, which is the fair tax, not race relations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rl, i resent you intimating that i am racist.  &#8220;The reason for not providing amounts or statistics is probably because they have none and, it may be that it is not the “cost” that bothers most such people but rather “race”. this statement is completely out of line, sir, and i&#8217;ve neverhad a problem with the color of a persons&#8217; skin.  what i do have a problem with, is the fact that millions of people, not just mexican, are breaking the law with what appears to be immunity from prosecution.  what i have a problem with is the refusal to learn the language of the country that they choose to move to.  no, i don&#8217;t have statistics, because of the nature of the issue.  i would suggest, sir, rather than attacking my morals, that you address the issue at hand, which is the fair tax, not race relations.</p>
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		<title>By: RLaitres</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1605</link>
		<dc:creator>RLaitres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/04/28/fair-tax-would-give-transparence-in-government-spending/#comment-1605</guid>
		<description>I am always interested, when people begin speaking about illegal aliens and what they "cost" us.  I hear and read many things, but what is seemingly always lacking are specifics based upon statistics from some authoratative source.  In fact, most uses generalities.  Some, or so it would seem, refer to emergency rooms full of "illegal aliens."  The question I always ask is:  How do they know that all are illegal aliens or, as I suspect, they see a Hispanic and assume that he is here illegally.  Then we have those claiming that they "cost" more than what they pay in.  Very well, but again provide us with some quantifiable amounts or, at the very least, again some reliable statistics.

And of course, we have the "complaint" that some are smuggling drugs into the country.  Let me ask the following question.  How much smuggling of drugs, or other contraband, would be smuggled if we didn't have so many American idiots buying drugs?  Maybe, if we really want to solve that problem, we should address the reason why we have so many of our own idiots using drugs, don't you think?

The reason for not providing amounts or statistics is probably because they have none and, it may be that it is not the "cost" that bothers most such people but rather "race", or the fact that these immigrants do not pass the "standards of conformity" wanted by these "super patriotic" Americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am always interested, when people begin speaking about illegal aliens and what they &#8220;cost&#8221; us.  I hear and read many things, but what is seemingly always lacking are specifics based upon statistics from some authoratative source.  In fact, most uses generalities.  Some, or so it would seem, refer to emergency rooms full of &#8220;illegal aliens.&#8221;  The question I always ask is:  How do they know that all are illegal aliens or, as I suspect, they see a Hispanic and assume that he is here illegally.  Then we have those claiming that they &#8220;cost&#8221; more than what they pay in.  Very well, but again provide us with some quantifiable amounts or, at the very least, again some reliable statistics.</p>
<p>And of course, we have the &#8220;complaint&#8221; that some are smuggling drugs into the country.  Let me ask the following question.  How much smuggling of drugs, or other contraband, would be smuggled if we didn&#8217;t have so many American idiots buying drugs?  Maybe, if we really want to solve that problem, we should address the reason why we have so many of our own idiots using drugs, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
<p>The reason for not providing amounts or statistics is probably because they have none and, it may be that it is not the &#8220;cost&#8221; that bothers most such people but rather &#8220;race&#8221;, or the fact that these immigrants do not pass the &#8220;standards of conformity&#8221; wanted by these &#8220;super patriotic&#8221; Americans.</p>
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