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Robert Laitres‚ Community Page letter (”We are a nation of Believers‚ not thinkers‚” Apr. 30) merits further attention because it offers insight into why every presidential candidate must at least proclaim belief in the Christian version of “God.”
Two recent books by well-known journalists — “Daydream Believers: How a Few Grand Ideas Wrecked American Power,” by Fred Kaplan; and “God is not GREAT: How Religion Poisons Everything,” by Christopher Hitchens — illustrate, respectively, how pre-conceived ideological beliefs spawned the Iraq fiasco, and how wishful religious beliefs perpetuated by self-serving organized religions distorted world history and politics.
Political ideology is essentially materialistic, since it is concerned with governmental policies in this world — like the preservation of Israel, or the perpetuation of American supremacy ( a la the “Neocon” clique of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc.), or that tax cuts, deregulation, and the market or government can and will solve all societal problems.
While Hitchens’ polemic is overstated, his theme is that the irrational “other-worldly” orientation of sundry religious beliefs create convenient justification for moral outrages in this world (e.g., the Crusades, the Inquisition, witch burning, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, papal accords with Hitler; the bloody partition of India and Pakistan, the Arab-Israeli conflict, and suicide bombers motivated by belief in heavenly sexual rewards).
Read together, the two books suggest that religion matters too much in American politics — and thus that a “wall of separation” between church and state should be more rigorously enforced.
In recent memory, we have heard AIDS ascribed to divine retribution for sexual profligacy and/or a racist government conspiracy; Hurricane Katrina called divine retribution on New Orleans for harboring a gay community (left untouched); and both Mormonism and Catholicism dubbed “cults,” even as both denominations were tainted by the spectre of organized child sexual abuse in the name of religion.
Contrast this cacophony with the humble New Testament wisdom of former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.
Ultimately, the most potent poison forms where ideology and religion converge. Thus, it is one thing to patriotically (if not naively) claim that “God is on our side” (as did the Confederacy), but quite another to advocate a nuclear attack on Iran in order to accelerate the “Rapture” (as has Reverend Hage). Should only agnostics and/or atheists be allowed to run for president?
BILL HUGENBERG
Grand Junction
16 Responses to “Religion matters too much in politics”
Posted May 1st, 2008 at 3:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
The last sentence of Mr. Hugenberg’s letter is the question “Should only agnostics and/or atheists be allowed to run for president”? The answer to that is “NO”, at least in my view but, provided that the individual seeking that position is able to distinguish, recognize, and abide by the separation between the state and religion. It is abundantly clear, that those in the current administration have had neither the intellectual capacity or integrity to do either. Instead, they have “used” religion for political purposes; i.e. for a materialistic objective. Of course, those in religion who have, and continue to allow themselves to be used for such a purpose, are also guilty of the same offense and for the very same reason.
Mike Huckabee, to whom Mr. Hugenberg refers, was also guilty of the same when he suggested that the Constitution should be changed to conform to “God’s Law.” That statement was quite revealing and, taking that statement by itself, and at face value, one can conclude that Mr. Huckabeee himself was guilty of the same as others. It made him, not a Republican, not a Democrat, not a conservative, not a liberal but actually a political theocrat.
My view of what I consider the proper relation between church and state, as far as being more beneficial to humnanity, is probably best represented in the views of Martin Luther King Jr, that the only proper relationship between church and state, the one most beneficial for the individual, is an adversarial one. History has shown it to be the case, over and over again, that when the state and religion become one, it is the individual who suffers.
Posted May 1st, 2008 at 4:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
All I want in a President, or any other politician is HONESTY and INTEGRITY, and a solid understanding of the RULE OF LAW.
Something very rare in the political word today.
Posted May 1st, 2008 at 4:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
rl, i never thought i’ld say this, but i agree with you…i’ld never vote for a person according to their religious faith or beliefs, as i feel a theocracy is the worst sort of governing system…mind, i’m not saying i don’t have faith of a sort, which i refuse to get into, but it has no place in the governing of a nation…i’m not sure i agree that church and state necessarily need to be adversarial or confrontational, however…hell, anymore, i refuse to vote for any type of party affiliation, as neither of the 2 major parties nor the minors have put forth candidates worthy of being put in office, imho…
Posted May 1st, 2008 at 7:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Wow, I agree with Willis too.
While the Constitution precludes a religious test for candidates, I recognize that someone proclaiming a lack of religious belief would never stand a chance running for office at this point in time.
Personally, I believe that anyone smart enough to BE president is too smart to WANT to be.
Posted May 1st, 2008 at 8:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
But, there is this one little blurb that causes me to stop and ponder…
“- Hurricane Katrina called divine retribution on New Orleans -”
Now, at the time, FEMA got blamed, and since GW wuz the Prez, it was all his fault.
Now at the time I thought it was just political rhetoric, but apparently Bush got the hint that the weather was his job too, and no hurricanes have hit the Gulf Coast since…
Just something to ponder.
Posted May 1st, 2008 at 9:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
No one blamed Bush for the hurricane, WlJ. It was the indifference, “Brownie, you’re doing a heck-of-a-job” and sitting on his dumb ass while Americans were suffering that embarrassed his administration and outraged our nation.
And what the hell is the difference between a politician who claims allegiance to Christianity but just does so for political expediency and a politician who claims agnostic doctrine? I know it is not the cool thing or what is demanded in Republican circles but I’d rather vote for the honest one.
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 7:00 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Actually, the environmental whackos claimed the hurricanes were all caused by global warming, and because President Bush did not support the kyoto toilet paper, all the ‘global warming’ was directly due to his failure to kow tow.
“It was all Bushes fault”.
But, the question remains, if the hurricanes were caused by ‘globular worming’, why no more hurricanes ripping up the Gulf Coast since?
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis;
I’ll see your “environmental whackos” blaming Bush for Katrina and raise you “Christian whackos” blaming 9/11 on “the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians” (That’s a direct quote from Jerry Falwell). Fair enough?
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 8:11 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
One of the extreme ‘right wing’ nutcases is equal to thousands of yours?
Jerry wasn’t “one of mine”, so don’t blame me for his dumb quotes.
Just like I didn’t blame you for the far ‘left wing’ nutcases in my previous post.
Fair enough?
oh, one more thing.
Good Morning Curmudgeon, I trust you slept well last night?
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh, come on…to claim Falwell as a lone “extreme nutcase” while claiming “thousands” of “left wing nutcases” is just downright disingenuous. There are thousands of voices on the extremes of both sides, which is what I was trying to point out. You’re calling attention to the voices of one extreme while purposefully minimizing the other. I don’t recall blaming you for any of their statements; but you can’t keep tarring every liberal with the ‘whacko’ brush and claim every conservative is a gentle, rational, come-let-us-reason-together paragon of common sense.
I used to live in New Orleans, but I moved long before the flood. I don’t blame Bush for Katrina. The government has been ignoring the levees for decades. I blame his slow response, his horse-show judging FEMA idiot, and his foolish wife’s declaration that he people in the shelters “had it better” than they did in their homes before the flood.
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis Leon Johnson, there you go again! I am an ” environmental whacko ” and neither I nor any of my EW colleagues have ever blamed hurricanes on global warming. Many believe the warming phenomenon will affect the number and intensity of hurricanes, but that is not the same thing as the statement you made. There have always been hurricanes.
oh, yeah. Good morning. Happy Friday.
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sorry, that was his Mom’s declaration, not his wife’s. I tend to lump all the Bushes, Kennedys, and various other family dynasties together.
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 8:50 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Blaming normal, everyday, decent Christians (like me) for the likes of Jerry Falwell is just plain mean, Curm… Willis, you, too for blaming normal decent environmental friendly folks (like me) for comments made by “whackos”.
There have been horrible things done and said on all sides by many more extremist folks than I care to count that are just plain mean. Curm, I have to tell you, Pat Roberston, however, tops my list of people who make us normal decent Christians look bad. I cringe whenever I hear he has opened his mouth again because I know someone will jump on the opportunity to malign Christians. Kind of like Al Sharpton makes normal decent African Americans look bad when he opens his. Please don’t jump me for that, I don’t have a bigoted bone in my body.
Unfortunately, the name callers and blame throwers jump on the opportunity to use one public person’s extremist views or comments to malign others.
I’ll get off my soapbox now… ya’ll have a blessed day and a wonderful weekend!
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 8:55 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sue, I would never blame decent people for Falwell. That’s what I was trying to point out to Willis; shoving everyone into one side or the other is unfair. That’s what I was trying to illustrate. But I do apologize for not making that clearer.
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 9:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Now Sue, I didn’t paint anybody on this board with any type of brush.
It just seems that some took my remarks personally.
Perhaps they saw themselves and did not like what they saw?
I’m not a ‘conservative’, not a ‘liberal’.
I believe in the “Rule Of Law”, real life “SCIENTIFIC FACT”, and that includes Biological Fact.
Others on this site believe in political rhetoric and how they “feel” on various subjects.
dc, is a self proclaimed environmental whacko, I didn’t stick the label on him.
But he believes that if someone does not ‘feel’ the same way he does, the hate the planet and can’t wait to pollute every square inch, including the oceans.
Curmie is just fun to debate with. he’s a lot like me, mean-spirited and hateful in a fun-loving, friendly sort of way.
Some are mean-spirited, nasty and hateful, because that is the way they view the world and other people on this board.
The ‘liberal’ media keeps referring to the far right, religious folks as bad for the nation, but they neglect to mention that there is a lot of Democrats that are also religious, and hold the same beliefs.
mr wright, of Obamas church notwithstanding, democrat Christians are just as religious as them horrid right wing fanatics.
Posted May 2nd, 2008 at 10:12 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
The closing from a great article in today’s TruthDig (http://www.truthdig.com):
“We are letting religious fanaticism dominate the presidential campaign. The candidates have brought it on themselves with tedious references to their churchgoing piety. Now we’re all paying for it. Who cares what their preachers say? The voters want to hear about how the presidential candidates would restart the sick economy and get us out of Iraq.”
++++++++++++
Demos or Repugs, no matter, read it and WEEP for the future of this country….Then, let’s have some real press on McCain’s nutcase pastor Haggis. Are FOX, CNN, CBS, NBC/MSNBC (General Electric owned), and ABC (Disney owned) part of the “liberal press”?
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