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Sentinel readers may be unaware of the on-going efforts of Republican would-be Mesa County Commissioner candidates Jim Doody (soon-to-be Grand Junction’s former mayor) and Dave Kearsley (an attorney and investment adviser residing near Mesa) to petition onto the August Republican primary ballot. The deadline to submit the petitions is May 29, and both are relying on volunteers to help collect about 3,000 signatures each.
These petition drives epitomize the oft-quoted axiom of the late Tip O’Neill that “All politics is local.” Thus, while we can all follow the drama of the three remaining “major” presidential candidates from afar, we registered Republicans in Mesa County can take an even more active role in the local political process by signing these petitions.
As former Mesa County commissioner and esteemed Republican Tillie Bishop recently suggested “competition” — meaning: contested elections — is the life-blood of a vibrant local polity. Thus, even though incumbents Craig Meis and Janet Rowland already face contested elections against Democratic attorneys Dan Robinson and Dick Lewis, respectively, in November, both the vitality of the Mesa County Republican Party and the viability of its candidates will likely be enhanced by a vigorously contested Republican primary.
Most importantly, we voters will become better informed and thus more “sophisticated” (to quote Commissioner Steve Acquafresca) if Craig and Janet first participate in public forums and “debates” versus Jim and Dave — in which all four can explain their positions to the more sympathetic, receptive, and congenial audience of local registered Republicans.
Nevertheless, in the final analysis, “the most important political office is that of private citizen” (U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis). Thus, registered Mesa County Republicans seeking to fulfill the civic duties of their “high office” by signing these petitions can call Jim at 250-5861, Dave at 268-5684, or (in the Redlands) me at 257-1998 (leave a message) — and someone will deliver their petition(s) directly to your door!
BILL HUGENBERG
Grand Junction
102 Responses to “Republicans should sign petition to allow candidates on ballot”
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 4:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
An odd thing, this.
Mr. Hugenberg is about as far from a conservative as one can get in this country, but he’s pushing petitions to get (equally non-conservative) wannabe candidates onto the republican ballot.
If Bill likes them, perhaps he should get them on the democrat ballot instead?
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 4:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
They are both Republicans–Kearsley life-long– and they both are very much against the way the Board of Commissioners are handling dealing with the energy industry, particularly the way they are not providing opportunities for the public and elected officials of communities in Mesa County to be heard. If Republicans are happy with the status quo, so be it, but if they would like a voice in making a choice and still vote Republican then getting Doody and Kearsley on the primary ballot is the answer. Why shoot the messenger? How Hugenberg ultimately votes is his business. Does voting a straight Republican ticket require holding ones nose if he or she thinks there could be better choices?
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 4:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
My point is that neither of the two mentioned have an CONSERVATIVE credentials.
And, once again, you assume that I vote ‘republican’.
But I do find myself holding my nose when I even look at ballots lately.
Both parties seem intent on presenting the scum from beneath the bottom of the barrel.
You will have to acknowledge that there are much more qualified democrats than any of the conglomeration presented and fawned over by the press.
Much the same as there are far better republicans than what the national party stuck us with.
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 5:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
The candidates are who they are and it is a moot point whether others MIGHT be better. Where did I “assume” you voted Republican? And where is it written that a Republican candidate have CONSERVATIVE credentials? And how do you know either or both of these guys don’t vote conservative? Merely being critical of the current commisioners somehow indicates that one is not a died-in-the-wool conservative?
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Gee John, mostly it’s who supports them that causes me to question their ‘credentials’.
And if any given candidate has other than ‘conservative’ credentials, that would make them not ‘conservative’, and the republican party keeps telling us that they are ‘conservative’.
Which would make a ‘non-conservative’ candidate more of a democrat in republican clothing.
But, the end does justify the means, right?
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 8:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
If John B. is for them, that is enough for me. Any candidate that John B endorses, I wouldn’t vote for in a dog fight, if he was favored to win. What an insult to our intelligence. If the candidate wasn’t a straight up, left wing radical demagogue, John B. would be ragging on them in every post, just like he does the real Republicans. Do me a favor, John B, if you get any takers, let me know. I still have one piece of beach front property in AZ., adjoining the one you bought. “Dave” would have been better off hiring a snake oil salesman. No offense meant, of course.
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 9:21 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’ve never met, nor heard much about ‘Dave’, but he’s lost any chance of me voting for him, likewise mr doodle.
But, to be fair, doodle is known for his ‘hate the county residents’ attitude, and the only reason he wants on the county board is to further damage whatever ‘rights’ the county residents have left after baughman and spewhard.
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 9:30 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Actually, I know all the Republican candidates for county commissioner personally. They are all good citizens and honest people. They just disagree on some major issues. It is bad form to disrespect people before they have had a chance to earn it.
Posted May 5th, 2008 at 9:56 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I have some ideas re; above letter from Bill. First, after reading his letters to the editor for some time, I am sure that the only Republican he would support would be a RINO (Republican in name only). I was actually looking at info for Mr. Doody before this letter endorsed him.
And, oh by the way, is this a letter to the editor, or a paid endorsement? Where is the “this ad was paid for by, or the I am _____ and I approved this message. Some of the politicians actually have to pay for their advertising, or was it paid for with a promissory note.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 7:12 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
American Patriot - please define “real Republican.”
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 7:33 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus,
Please define “define”.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 8:08 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Just for the record, for all you folks out there in Dittoland, my interest is seeing that our county commissioners are not automatically in the pockets of the energy industry. They are not evil–the industry–but they play hardball and they are only interested in the land we occupy for the gas from beneath that land. We, I would think, on the other hand, would like to see some protections for our watershed, some reasonable regulations for settling ponds and enforcement of same, and some protections for those near drilling activity to respect the privacy and serenity of private landownners. Meis and Rowland have not shown any interest in those objectives. It seems to me that those are reasonable bipartisan objectives so what is all the rhetoric about other than just wanting to argue and challenge people who you have no idea of who they are and what they are all about? Can I assume that those who oppose Doody, Kearsley and the Democratic candidates are happy with the performance of Meis and Rowland? If so, that’s certainly your perogative but if you care about our local environment you might take a closer look at the actions of the current commissioners. Unless you are employees of the energy companies, these commissioners are not in your corner.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 8:24 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
American Patriot - Let me put it is monosyllabic terms. Please provide a list of traits, philosophies, political positions and/or worldview which you believe fairly characterizes your idea of what a “true” Republican is or should be. How can we truly appreciate your brilliance if you don’t adequately express your beliefs?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 8:49 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus, please define “characteristic”. Otherwise your entire supposition is based on what the definition of “is”, is.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 8:52 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
John B.
We assume you are what you write. Of course, we could be wrong. You could be a closet Republican conservative, working for the re-election of Meis and Rowland. In that case, well done.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 8:56 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
John,
Do you actually read the legal info on your subject? Just how much influence do you think ANYONE at the local level has on entities like the US Forest Service and BLM? They make the decisions, and if we the people get any concession at all, our elected officials have worked hard and long to get it.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
grandmasix,
There are many others besides elected officials who work hard to affect public policy and, yes, they actually do change things. Grassroots organizing can be very effective in influencing groups like the BLM and other agencies. Not minimizing the work of our electeds, but they don’t do it alone.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:05 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus,
american patriot doesn’t seem to have any answers for you, does he/she?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:08 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
by the way, american patriot. Yor comment at the end of #6 is disingenuous, you obviously mean to offend.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:12 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
DC - People like American Patriot usually fold up when challenged - his non-answers to my questions are quite predicable. I think it’s genetic.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:16 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
hmmm, it looks like proteus and dc need to get a room together.
AmericanPatriot, you do realize that johnb and others of his caliber do consider you (and me and anybody that doesn’t agree with them)to be “lowest common denominator”?
Proteus, state your qualifications to require definitions from anybody else.
Or provide the definitions asked of you.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:17 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
American Patriot - I’m in an indulgent mood this morning, so I’ll play the game for one more hand.
Define(verb)= “To set forth the meaning of a word, phrase or concept.”
Characteristic(noun) = “A distinguishing feature or quality.”
AP - It’s now time to “put up or shut-up.”
What is a “real” Republican?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:18 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis Leon Johnson,
Perhaps we can get the room next to you and american patriot.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:25 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Pray tell, what does it mean to be a “Republican”? What does this signify? For what does the “Grand Ole Party” stand for? Reading these posts from another land, it appears that ignorance, greed, flag waving, bible thumping, and a wretched attitude are the sole requirements for party affiliation.
Might there be something else? Something of substance?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:29 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis,
Yes, I realize. As for Proteus, he can’t help it. He just has a defining type of character. I try not to be hard on him because English may not be his primary language. As for dc, that’s just half a sentence isn’t it, but I do find myself somehow strangely attracted to him.
OMG, with all of this definition, and ac/dc stuff, I plum forgot what we were talking about. How ’bout them polygamists?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:31 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
After observing for some time it seems to me that the majority of the people that post here are a bunch of jerks. People like john b, proteus,dc,chancho,eu, bruce86 all seem to love to pounce on anyone that does not share their opinion.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:34 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Chancho,
Haven’t you heard? We are just bitter. We tend to cling to God and Guns to explain our frustrations. By the way, how is that whole Democratic nominee thing coming? Keep your eye on the prize.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:36 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
All I can say is “johneb” good
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:38 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well you got that right, john-b-good. We’s jerks, and this is the land of no accountability. Neighbor pitted against neighbor. We pounce before the body is even cold and the blood is still flowing - you know why?
Because there is a steady supply of idiotic, predictable, fact-less letters and responses that warrant immediate discourse.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:39 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Still no definition of “real Republican”, I note.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:43 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, here’s how to explain it to a 4 year old child.
I remember the time that Catherine, one of my daughter Shannon’s friends when she was little, told me that she wanted to be President one day.
Both of her parents are liberal Democrats and were standing there with us - and I asked Catherine, “If you were President what would be the first thing you would do?”
Catherine replied, “I would give houses to all the homeless people.”
“Wow, what a worthy goal you have there, Catherine.”
I told her, “You don’t have to wait until you are President to do that, you can come over to my house and clean up all the dog poop in the back yard and I will pay you $5.
Then we can go over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $5 to use for a new house.”
Catherine, who was about 4, thought that over for a second, while her mom looked at me, and Catherine replied,
“Why doesn’t the homeless guy come over and clean up the dog poop and you can pay him the $5.”
Now, if a four year old little girl can grasp the concept, what seems to be the problem?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:46 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Johnebme - It’s not that “we” enjoy pouncing on intellectually deprived people, but someone has to offer an alternative to the intolerance, ignorance and religious fundamentalism as practiced here in the Grand Valley. It’s a tiring and droll job, but somebody has to do it!
DC - I don’t expect American Patriot will provide any answers, because I don’t believe he has any - he must be a local.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:47 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Still no definition of “characteristic” I note, and no definition of “is”, I note. Echo, Echo, Echo. Did not. Did so. I don’t know, whatshu wana do?
Where the heck is John B.? There should be someone he could speak for in all of this. Besides it would give us a chance to talk about “Dave”.
PS. dc, about that room thing?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
We are still waiting for that definition, sir.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:49 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
That one is just too perfect, isn’t it? “Willis shows a 4-year-old why charity is stupid.” And a worthy adversary she was, at that.
I hope you didn’t break your arm patting yourself on the back for that one.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Very insightful and, well, very revealing. It’s a simple world, i suppose. And, the moral of the story is? Enslaving people to do your dirty work is justifiable?
Now i’m REALLY scared about the future of this country
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
American patriot, about that room thing. In your dreams.
I have to go do something constructive now. Bye.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:54 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
American Patriot - please see #22. Got to go, time to watch Pastor John Hagee and get ready for the return of the Baby Jesus!
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:55 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
” Proteus
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:46 am PM This User Report this comment
Johnebme - It’s not that “we” enjoy pouncing on intellectually deprived people, ”
Poor proteus, in order to ‘pounce’ first you must be above the prey.
It’s an exceptional feat to ‘pounce’ from below the gutter where you seem to prefer to reside.
Or, I could read it as you are assuming a superior intellect?
In which case I would ask you to show some indication of a trait that has been sorely missing from your diatribes.
So, we’re all waiting, say something ‘not stupid’ so we can be impressed….
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 10:00 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I don’t know what’s scarier, Chanco…
The future of our Country,
or that Willis is offering 4-year-old girls $5 to come over to his house.
(Sometimes, they just write themselves….)
HiYOOOOOOOO!
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 10:10 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc, You in a dream, proverbial nightmare. BOHTCA
proteus, Sorry, your time period is up. But I have to go too. I have a conference call from Rev Jeremiah Wright. We are working on that baby Jesus thing, and the second coming of Barack.
Did someone misspell tyranny? Who’s in control of this interview, anyway?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 10:18 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Indeed, Curmudg, let’s just hope & pray (not PREY) that certain, unamed, posters on this site aren’t in positions of trust with young children, or coaches for middle school sports teams, or, say, deacons or church leaders. The uneasy sleaziness, and stalking-prone-ness, gives me the willies.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 10:35 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
To legal-eagle Granny, the county has the authority to have local regulations and enforce them if they don’t conflict with federal, state or BLM regulations. In fact, only BLM regs apply on BLM land. Meis continues to suggest otherwise when that right was established in what is called the Gunnison case. Other counties now, or are in the process, have established local regs. It seems it is not I who doesn’t read the law. If you choose to be helpless in the face of potential damage to our county and it’s residents I guess that’s your business. The county has the option of looking out for your interests , or not. I’ll opt for commissioners of either party who have our interests at heart, not their own business interests. Before suggesting another’s ignorance, you really ought to know what you’re talking about and demonstrating your own ignorance.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 10:55 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
John B.,
You are a rude, obnoxious, boring, repetitive bully. I never purported to be a “legal-eagle”.
I have dealt with the Federal Government for years, and I can tell you that they don’t give a whit about you or me or our little local government. I believe that I said the county has worked for the concessions the Feds deem to allow us, and believe me that is their attitude. If you were dealing with them, you would soon be as frustrated with them as those of us who do.
If you persist on this line of insults, I think your words will carry less weight than they already do.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 11:10 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
American Patriot - could you please explain the meaning of BOHTCA? It sounds like some kind of secret working class ID code. Also, I’m moderately interested in why you chose the pseudonym (” a fictitious name used by an author to conceal his or her identity”) AMERICAN (”of or pertaining to the USA or it inhabitants”) PATRIOT (”a person who loves, supports and defends his or her country with devotion”). It sounds sort of pretentious to me. At least I chose the name of a Greek God (it must have something to do with being forced to study ancient history, Greek and Latin at the incredibly elitist and expensive private schools from which I received much of my education).
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 11:20 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
” It sounds sort of pretentious to me. At least I chose the name of a Greek God (it must have something to do with being forced to study ancient history, Greek and Latin at the incredibly elitist and expensive private schools from which I received much of my education). ”
They teach this stuff in sandbox?
I thought you chose that name as hoping some godliness would wear off on you, and instill fear in our hearts.
Neither of which worked.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 11:26 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus,
God God, talk about pretentious. Yes BOHTCA is a OD green-collar code. I somehow knew you would not understand. What I can’t understand is why you insist on trying to have a conversation with people you obviously consider to be so far below your intellect. I am simply trying to take advantage of your superior, private education to better myself. What exactly is it that you are doing? Slumming?
To find out the definition of BOHTCA, you will need to venture outside your circle of friends and relations, find someone who has actually served in the US military, and while you are at it, you might ask about FUBAR. Now that would be appropriate.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 11:43 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
American Patriot - does serving six (6) years in the United States Marine Corps (air wing, of course - I was far too savvy to agree to be a “grunt”) count as military service.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 11:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Wow, y’all sure are cranky today!
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 12:31 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
To Granny, thank you for the kind and thoughtful words. Does “do you actually read the legal info on your subject?” ring a bell? That seems to inply I’m a lazy, ignorant person. I answer with what the law is which you apparently weren’t aware of. I don’t recall there being a discussion of how your feelings about the federal government is pertinent to a discussion of what the county commissioners had the ability to do, but haven’t. If I’m rude and insulting how should we categorize your statement? In this space it seems that those who dare answer some of the biased, poisoned comments from the drive-by, ditto-head crowd are vile cretins. A little introspection on your part and a review of where most of the stuff you categorize so colorfully emanates from might be a reality check for you. On the other hand, probably not possible.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 12:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It is interesting to note how many, even on this board, whose responses are purely Pavlovian. They get “triggered” by names, words, etc. The contents of their attempted responses to points raised reflect it. They are all to often unable to distinguish the central argument and the supporting points, and how sophomoric are their responses. Another characteristic is that when someone uses his knowledge about a subject in one of their posts, they accuse them of being “elitist”, exhibiting superority, etc. All that reveals is that, it not being their idea, or if someone knows something they do not, nor having made any attempt to learn, the other party must therefore be pompous for suffering from some sense of superiority. That is often found in those attempting to “hide” or cover up their own ignorance, not in attempting to learn anything new. That is why they all to frequently attempt to reduce everything to the “personal” and “ad hominem” attacks. As they view disagreement “personally”, such responses are to be expected.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 12:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
JohnB: While it is your time, and you may do with it as you will, you may be wasting your time attempting to use logic with those who are incapable of thinking logically but can only respond emotionally. I have tried many times but it has always proved futile. Once the mind is closed (if ever opened), the only one who can open it is the individual him/herself. And that first requires that the individual recognize that it is closed, and needs opening. That is not about to happen as first they would have to look honestly at themselves. That, as we all know, is probably one of the most difficult tasks one can undertake in life. But, good luck anyway.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 12:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I really want to know what a ‘real republican’ is… I think one qualification might be that you have to hate roundabouts, and write frequently to the paper complaining of them…Crack myself up.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 12:53 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
John B. - I’m convinced the primary reason you have so many detractors is that you’re not “one with the Baby Jesus” as so many of them seem to be. The fact that you haven’t accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior (necessitated by the fact that you, like all humans, you are a dirty, tainted wretch separated from God by the mere fact of your existence) and haven’t turned your life and brain over to Him. You need to accept your eventual fate of being “left behind” here on earth as your pious detractors are “raptured” into heaven to hang out with God. Unless you give yourself to Christ you are doomed to the “fiery pit.”
John, I implore you, divest yourself of the sin of analytical, intelligent thought and accept the non-rational world of Christianity before it’s too late. Save yourself!!
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 12:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bob, as you probably noted in my last hateful,disgusting post, I don’t really hold out any hope for the slightest reality check. How can you explain drive-bys by those who prefer–demand, actually–anonymity?
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 12:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Toaaronuu: Most of the time, the reason one does not elicit a response from those who use terms, is that they have never even asked themselves the question. They keep using it, but only because it “sounds good.” What is almost always evident, although they themselves do not recognize it, is that a “real” anything to them is someone who believes exactly as they do. Anyone else is “not real.”
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 12:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I choose to worship the Great Cosmic Frisbee;
When you die, your everlasting soul gets to lie up on the garage roof.
Unless you’re a non-believer; then, you end up in the gutter and get run over by a street sweeper.
Glory to the WHAM-O Corporation, in the highest!
Hey, it’s got just as much factual basis as the other ones……
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 1:09 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus, I knew all of that and chose to accept my firey appointment with others of my ilk. But there is a God–many of them, actualy–here on earth and they are accesible at any time and they all reside under one roof–Fox News. Except for Rush, of course.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 1:18 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
JohnB: Yes John, I am an “evil one” also. My offense? I choose to do my own thinking. Curmudgeon brings up a new “religion” based upon “worship of the Great Cosmic Frisbee”. I would like to know more about that one. It sounds like fun.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 1:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curmudgeon - All hail the Great Cosmic Frisbee (which is real, not a myth like God), but you don’t have all the story about how the GCF came into being.
The original frisbee was NOT invented by Wham-O, but existed in the form of metal pie tins from the Frisbee Baking Company of New Haven, Conn. To relax from their studies, Yale University students would order fresh pies from the Frisbee Bakery, consume the delicious contents, and then go outside and toss the empty pie tins (embossed on the bottom with the name “Frisbee”). Eventually, this recreational activity became known as playing “Frisbee.”
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 1:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Post #31. . . surprise, Willis, they just don’t get it do they. Went right over their little pointy heads.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 1:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Pashunspls - It wasn’t that post #31 went over our “little pointy heads,” but simply that the story way so droll and banal it wasn’t worth spending the time or energy replying to it.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 1:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
proteus,
You, sir, are a pompous ___. My Grandson is a “Grunt” and volunteered to be one. He is in his second tour of duty for our nation, and for you, with all your supposed superiority to remark that he must not be “savvy” galls me to the point that you should be glad this is a public forum where words must be carefully chosen. I will say that from all the Marines I know, they would NEVER say anything against another Marine, so, that makes me question your remarks. Anonymity gives you wings.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 1:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Grandmasix - When I went into the Corps in 1964 it didn’t take me very long to figure out two important things,(1) that flying around in an aircraft was much safer than being an infantry rifleman and (2) being an instructor was the best way of avoiding combat duty. I therefore made sure I did both. Semper Fi!
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus
Couldn’t tell you much about the “air wing”, proteus, but I can tell you that there are no atheists in a fighting hole. Chesty must be rolling in his grave. A Marine rifleman would have known what BOHTCA was, and as you know, being in the “air wing” and all, every Marine is first and foremost a rifleman. Semper-Fi, Carry On.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
American Patriot - The contention that “every Marine is first and foremost a rifleman” is a myth fostered by the public relations hacks at CMC in Washington. We “airdales” didn’t go through infantry training after Parris Island (or San Diego), we went to NAS Jacksonville for two glorious months of “Air Familiarization School” before going on to our specialty schools. We rarely interfaced with the “grunts.” The only thing “gruntlike” we ever had to do was to requalify with our weapons (M14 or M16) and pistol every year. But unlike the “grunts,” failing to qualify annually didn’t affect our promotions. Actually, we felt sorry for the “grunts” - bad food, bad quarters, bad officers, etc. We in the air wing had a “cushy” life compared to the “ground pounders.” But guess what, we still got to wear “dress blues” just like the “Mud Marines.”
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 2:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
To that exclusive club who know what BOHTCA means and holds that fact over others, do you guys still have secret decoder rings or have you moved on to secret handshakes? Just curious. And to Patriot(sic), I bet that frustrates you no end to not know who some of these folks are so you can look them up in the phone book and then include their address in a post. Just proves, I guess, that you have superior reading and research capabilities.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 2:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
proteus,
Actually, right now every mud Marine out there is feeling sorry for you. Some people have to spend their entire lives wondering if they have made a difference. Mud Marines don’t have that problem. Being an “airdale”, maybe you can explain to me why Marine Pilots wear camo covers on their flight helmets. I already know. I’m wondering if you do? Those that can, do and those that can’t, teach, instructor.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 2:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Fascinating discussion, gentlemen. NOT!
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus,
My family of Marines refer to other Marines as bad Marines, just a Marine or good Marines. Sounds to me like you fall into either the bad Marine or just a Marine grouping.
My family of Marines include grunts, airwing and supply. One thing is certain—–they all respect the other
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 3:29 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Rexall - Don’t make the mistake of thinking being a Marine (or “former” Marine)is anything special. Being in the Corps is no different than being in the Army, Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard. In case you haven’t noticed, the pay is all the same. Wait, there are a few things about the Corps that’s a little different - the dress uniform is better looking, and we can “high five” our buddies with Semper Fi!
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 3:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
proteus,
There is no such thing as a former Marine. If you earned it you carry it for life. If it were possible for someone to be a “former Marine” you would definitely get my vote.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 4:07 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Grandmasix - You’re confusing “ex” with “former.” The old hype is that once you’ve been initiated into the Corps via enlisted bootcamp or OCS, you are a member of the “club” for life. That’s why one is never an “ex” Marine. The proper terms are that while on active duty or member of the reserves, one is a “Marine.” The designaion changes to “former” Marine upon honorable discharge from the Corps. Talk to any discharged Marine and I think you’ll find that I’m correct.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 4:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Perhaps a clarification is in order.
“Once a Marine, Always a Marine” only applies to those who understand the concept of what it takes to actually be a Marine.
There are those few individuals who, for whatever reason, never actually got the concept of Semper Fi.
They just mouthed the words when confronted by another person wearing a Marine uniform.
Having been around a few “ground pounders” as well as a few Marine Aviators, the term “airdale” was for Navy air personnel, no Marines used the term in reference to themselves.
But that was my own personal experience, not all results are the same, nor guaranteed to perform to that same high standards.
And I have talked to quite a number of Marines, “no longer serving”.
Same story, they are still MARINES.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 4:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - You forgot another important catagory - “Wannabee Marine” - like youself. No matter how you slice it, you ain’t a member of the “club” and never will be.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 4:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
man…leave for a few days and nothing changes….the garbage and vitriol spewed by each and every one of you people towards each other is extremely disheartening….i thought this forum would be pure debate without the insults, name calling, and general b.s. you find on every other forum on the net…you guys can’t even stay on topic for more than 20 posts or so….now back to the topic, i don’t think anybody can define either party at this time….they’re inseperable….i do know that allowing one party or the other is a recipe for disaster, as seen when the republicrats were in control of all arms of the government….i don’t want the democans doing the same thing….as for the marines, i have nothing but respect for em, and many are my friends….if they were to witness the person degrading “grunts”, said person would probably be in for a blanket party…carry on with your childish responses to one another…it shows why people cannot come to terms with each other and come up with solutions instead of insults
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 4:41 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus, the Oracle has spoken on the issue and you are henceforth drummed out of the Semper Fi fraternity, as if you were ever in it. It is a place for real Men and super-patriots and no namby-pamby, limp-wristed wretched socialist like you measures up. Strange though, I’ve only met one ex-Marine who revelled in the Semper Fi fraternity and he washed out after six months. He continually recites the mantra, once a Marine, always a Marine. All of the others I’ve met, and there have been many, were proud of their service but didn’t wear it on their sleeve and they thought that the “once a Marine, always a Marine” thing was drummed into their head throughout their career but they recognized that there were good and bad Marines so that it was silly to generalize and feel they were all “brothers”. They recognized that unit cohesion was a must in the Corps but it had little meaning in living a civilian life. They felt a kinship with those that has similar experiences in their service but not a kinship with those who were merely in the Corps.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 5:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
hitechredneck
You absolutely cannot debate with these people. If you read the first few posts on each subject, it is a debate or at least an expression of different ideas, then the “usual suspects” get on and start telling you how stupid and inept you are and how you don’t have the intelligence to reply on the post, and then you either stick up for yourself or log off. I suppose you could ignore the demeaning of yourself, but then it stands as posted. If you can figure out a way to stop their venom, I am all for it. I will not if they don’t and I have told them that many times, but it is to no avail. I am guilty of the insults and innuendos too, and I know better. My Mom told me that when you best a fool, you best no one, but keeping quiet when they tell you how stupid you are or twist your words to mean what they say it means is hard, and it does no good to get back on subject, as you have just witnessed. Welcome back
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 5:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Golly proteus,
you assume I wanted to be a Marine.
Here’s an assumption of mine.
You are a certifiable non entity.
I have serious doubts that you were ever in the Marines, certainly not as a combat pilot.
Like JohnB, somewhat useless in the grand scheme of things.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 5:16 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hitekredneck - It’s hard to believe that anyone takes all this nonsense seriously. By not establishing any reasonable rules on the “comment” feature, all the Daily Sentinel has done is open their pages (and reputation) to the mindless, ignorant, intolerant, bigoted rants of a bunch of old, angry white men who are sitting around waiting to die. The Sentinel is groveling in the gutter with the lowest of the low. There are some exceptions, but not many. The only reason I play on occasion is to tweak the egos of the fools who actually think the discourse is of some value. It’s sort of like the lottery - cheap thrills!
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 5:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - I never stated or implied that I was either an officer or a pilot. Before becoming an instructor is was a crew chief on Huey’s. I was discharged (after 3 years active duty and 3 years in the active reserves)with the rank of Gunnery Sergeant,E-7. Would you like to see a copy of my DD-214? (I assume you know what that is).
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 5:37 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“Groveling in the gutter with the lowest of the low”? That’s pretty funny, really. By and large, if I have to “grovel” with anyone, the folks participating in these discussions seem a decent enough group to do it with. I know others here wouldn’t say the same about each other, or about me, either.
As for rules about commenting, these are the guidelines we’ve agreed to follow since May 1:
1) Community.GJSentinel.com should be moderated to a degree only because it is tied to The Daily Sentinel/ GJSentinel.com brand.
2) If a comment meets any of these conditions, then it may be taken down:
— Profanity.
— Words that incite violence or criminal behavior.
— Libel.
— Hate speech.
3) When a comment violates any of the above conditions it may be taken down with no explanation.
4) Registered Community users may express concerns or questions regarding other member comments. Do that by hitting the “report this comment” link or e-mailing community@gjds.com.
5) Editing of user comments must be all or nothing.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 5:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis,
I took a break. I did not think it wise for me to post what I was thinking. I will simply say proteus is bogus. Assuming that he has a DD-214, my guess is the word “Honorable” does not appear on it. Why do you waste your time talking to this poor excuse for a human being. There are no solutions to be found here. I can tolerate his insults to me, but I am afraid I cannot tolerate his insults to the men that are not here to defend themselves. I know that he doesn’t know what he is saying, nor how deeply his insults cut. If there is not a hell, there should be. Good bye to you my friend and good luck.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 6:12 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
proteus,
If you were in the military in 1964 and had been for some time, how old are you? And not that it makes any difference, but aren’t you angry, you sound angry all the time. And just for the record, If the people, with the exception of the ones who just demean others, here are the lowest of the low, then I for one am proud to be one.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 6:23 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It is unfortunate that those on these boards have to be constantly reminded what are the rules. As the posts are, for the most part(I hope) from adults, adults should know to behave responsibly without having to be told. Some may wish to consider if they are sufficiently intellectually or emotionally mature to engage in civilized discouse. While the rules are quite broad, I would add that “innuendo” about an individual’s service record, or what is on that record, while it may be allowed, should be rejected, if for nothing but “in poor taste.”
Those who are not able to be challenged on the contents of their posts, should probably not post at all. And, personal (ad hominem) attacks are only engaged in by individuals who either do not, or have not the facility to use reason and logic to express themselves. And, if they begin “throwing the guano”, may I respectfull suggest that they have absolutely no right to expect that it will not be returned in kind.
Remember that the only standards one has by which to judge another are his/her own.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 6:30 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Perhaps grandmasix should go back and review her own posts prior to criticizing proteus or anyone else. Some of us do,and at times are not at all satisfied with what we find. Then, we apologize. Would that everyone would do the same prior to casting aspersions or rendering judgment upon others. Perhaps, prior to “questioning” the claims of military service by others, she might inform us of her own. Or, at the very least, tell us what she really knows about the military “first hand.”
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 6:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Grandmasix - To answer your question, I just turned 65 a few months ago. I joined the Marines in late 1964, served on active duty until late 1967 and in the active reserves until late 1970. Back in those days, a contract was a contract, and I was discharged on time, even with a war on. It’s different now when, enlistment contract or not, any member of the military can be “stop-lossed” until God only knows when. As for being angry, the answer is a qualified yes. I’m angry at the Republicans, neocons, Libertarians and
Christian fundamentalists who have ruined our great country for the last eight years - damage that will take decades to repair.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 6:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Robert, I was not speaking to you and in a polite world, you do not question others motives, speech or life unless you are in on it. Sit down and stay quiet for a few minutes.
Proteus, I was not questioning your service, just the fact that you sound so angry all the time. You didn’t leave very many people out of your “I hate” list. Sort of leaves out any discussion on many levels. The reason I ask the questions was just idle curiosity. I just wondered why you feel the need to be so venomous to others.
My late husband served in Vietnam, and he was a great American. He was somewhat bitter, but he loved our country, and as the song says, “He flew a flag out in our yard till the day that he died”.
Now, Robert, do not insult me or my intelligence again with any of your rants. If I want to hear from you, or John B. I will let you know.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 6:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Todd - How is it that you won’t find the kind of comments you allow here in the Free Press. It’s simple, in the Free Press, people comment on ideas. Attacks on people are simply not allowed. All comments are reviewed before posting, the knowledge of which serves as a reasonable deterrent to the kind of mindless rants that form an inordinate percentage of community.com comments. Let’s face it, the newspaper industry is in trouble, but allowing what has morphed into a teenage “blog” where anything goes is not the answer to the Sentinel’s long-term problem. Old man Cox would turn over in his grave if he saw the kind of junk you allow on community.com.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 6:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
grandmasix would do well to follow her own advice. Neither am I ever to take directions from others on boards. Perhaps, within her own family she can tell others to “stay quiet” and issue orders, and they are “obeyed”, but not on a public board. If, when “chastised” or challenged she is easily subject to “the vapors” perhaps this is not a proper venue in whic to engage other in discourse.
Now grandma, if we want to hear from you, we will let YOU know. May I humbly suggest that you not set rules or standards for others without first following them yourself.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 7:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Robert,
have you read my posts. Do you think I am prone to “vapors”?
In a polite society, which you rant about all the time, people do not answer for others, nor insult people with whom they are not having a conversation. Proteus and I are perfectly capable of holding a conversation without your help, insults or comments. If you have opinions, say them, but do not address them to people who have not addressed you. My post was clearly addressed to one person, not you. Obviously, he did not take my post apart and insult me, but answered my questions and started a dialog, and we are clearly on opposite sides of the issue at hand.
You, on the other hand, insult others without a care.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 7:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Grandmasix: You may wish to review “all” of your posts on this board. As to being insulted, if you are, that may be your perception. This also is a “public board”, and not a private one. By your own admission, you like to engage in “zingers” or “quips”, for what reason, I don’t know. As to your not wanting to have your “intelligence” insulted. I never insult anyones intelligence. I frequently do however, seriously question to what use, and how well they have used the potential of that intelligence.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 8:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey Bob, would you like me to get out my cut& paste tool and prove once again that your words accurately describe you and your actions?
Oh sure, why not.
” Any person or group that would criticize or challenge the achievement of those goals is not only to be repressed but actually destroyed. He/she is first labeled an obstructionist, unpatriotic, a traitor, or all of these. That having been done, and the individual or group having been denigrated, the process moves on to the inevitable next step of eliminating them. ”
Pretty accurate Bob, would you care for more?
I have plenty.
Why is it that so many good people have quit using this board boobbie?
Is it because they got tired of being attacked for their opinions when they clashed with yours?
Here’s another
” Many individuals, when attempting to engage in discussion, will follow the entire thread, and recognize that it is not always “limited” to the beginning point, that it may veer off into points that need addressing, in particular when they have been used to buttress a position. Those who read an entire string, from an initial post (or letter in this case) will recognize which response applies to which prior post. Others will not, instead using the opportunity to come up with what they believe to be clever “zingers”, or a game of “tag.” Such individuals are all to easily identifiable and in their posts, all too often display little but an inability to think comprehensively.
Bombastic buffoons: ”
Bombastic buffoons, another pretty accurate description of your own actions against other users of this forum.
From the post #92 in this thread;
” As to your not wanting to have your “intelligence” insulted. I never insult anyones intelligence. I frequently do however, seriously question to what use, and how well they have used the potential of that intelligence. ”
You sir are a liar, that is what you specialize in.
And who made you the determining entity on how another person has used their intelligence? Bombastic buffoon fits very nicely.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 8:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Todd - a suggestion as to how you can “fix” the problem you have with community.com. In addition to the rules you supposedly have in place, add one which clearly states that all comments must directly address the original letter or post - any meandering into personal comments will be summarily removed. Monitor the site at least once per hour and remove anything that violates the rule. I can guarantee you that it won’t take more than a few days to clean up community.com.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:23 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Good idea proteus.
The first post that left the topic in this thread was post #10
” Proteus
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 7:12 am PM This User Report this comment
American Patriot - please define “real Republican.” ”
And that’s just about the same time civil discourse disappeared.
But, I like your idea.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:29 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus. A worthwhile suggestion. However, until such time comes, I reserve the right that others claim for themselves. It is really sad, but at times necessary.
As to Willis’ reply, let me suggest this to the gentleman. If he cannot even come up with his own words, but has to plagiarize those of others, then how much credibility can he possibly have, except in his own mind.
From his posts to date, one can correctly surmise that even if one underlined the central point, then proceeded to identify and place each argument in support of it, including the sub-points, he still would not understand it. That is why he resorts to name calling and words such as “liar”, post#93, and questions the integrity and veracity and experience of others.
The last sentence of a book I recently read expresses it succinctly: “Tolerance is a virtue. Tolerance with apathy is a vice.” While some of us have great patience, and tolerate many things, there comes a point where intellectual charlatans like “Willis”, who believe they already know everything (the only real impediment to learning anything new), need to be “told off”, or at least an attempt made to do os. Some may allow others to set the rules, some of us do not.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
MrLaitres first addition to this thread was in posts # 51, 512, and 56.
All three off topic.
No bob, I can come up with my own words, but to use your words that you used against others while attempting to belittle them is just so much more fun, and shows what a hypocrite you really are.
And to make a point, when I said you were a “liar”, I was not calling you a name, merely stating a proven fact.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:49 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - actually, my comment was not totally off the subject, simply a request for American Patriot to define a term he used. As usual, AP dodged the question and things turned ugly. The point is that community.com needs tighter regulations to protect people like us from ourselves. If one thing has become evident during the Bush dictatorship it’s that the Republican/Libertarian concept of “self-regulation” is an oxymoron.
Posted May 6th, 2008 at 9:51 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. Johnson,
Perhaps you should examine your own posts, and see who “veered” off first. When someone attempts to use the term “true Republican” in his post, it is quite proper to ask what that means. If the individual is unable to define the term, it probably should not be used.
We realize that such may be foreign to you, but it is quite true nonetheless. As far as calling someone names in public, questioning their honesty, or veracity, such could only emanate from a puerile mentality.
While you may continue in such a tone if you wish, do not expect to be taken at all seriously, or treated with any respect, as obviously you are deserving of neither.
Posted May 7th, 2008 at 8:55 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I am still interested to hear what a ‘real republican’ is. Might be a good place to start today, and leave the ugliness behind. And start some new ugliness…
Posted May 7th, 2008 at 9:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I am still waiting, too. Since all the way back at #34. I guess american patriot doesn’t really have an answer to that.
Posted May 7th, 2008 at 9:07 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
toaaronuu/dc - I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for an answer from American Patriot. I suspect he doesn’t know what a “real” Republican is, or he feels he is “above” answering inquiries from interested parties. He wouldn’t last a minute if he wrote a letter to the editor which was actually published in the print edition of the Sentinel (or Free Press).
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