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Writing as an unaffiliated voter, I find the columns of Rick Wagner to be a source of vast amusement. How, in this era of the Bush administration, he can, with a straight face, consistently ascribe all the ills of the world to the liberals and the Democrat Party defies belief.
He is merely an ideologue interested in pushing his right-wing point of view rather than seeking the truth on any issue. Nothing wrong, of course, with a columnist having a one sided viewpoint. But just as Mr. Wagner congratulates the Communist Party in Italy for having the good manners to so identify itself (in his column today), he ought to come clean in a similar manner. I suggest a statement something like the following:
“This column makes no pretense at being objective. The truth has been revealed to me that the Democrats are the party of original sin and the liberals the font of all social evils around the world. I intend in this column to expose their nefarious plots to undermine motherhood and the family, to prevent us from executing prairie dogs and people, and to raise taxes to pay off the enormous deficit of the Bush and Reagan administrations, thereby undermining the beneficial effect on our military.”
J. EUGENE FOX
Grand Junction
58 Responses to “Wagner wags for the right-wing point of view”
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 11:57 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I agree with Mr. Fox.
He should declare his affiliations.
” He is merely an ideologue interested in pushing his (left)-wing point of view rather than seeking the truth on any issue. ”
Fits Mr. (unaffiliated) Fox exactly.
From his copious letters throughout the ages in this, and the other, paper, it’s not hard to understand exactly where Mr. Fox’s true leanings are politically.
To pretend to be ‘unbiased’ the letter writer is about as dishonest as one can be.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 12:09 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - It might be helpful for you to declare your affiliations before you request Mr. Fox to declare his. Without having met you, but having read many of your comments on a variety of issues, I would postulate that you are a neo-conservative Republican/Libertarian Christian Fundamentalist, 65 years old or older, retired from a non-management career, who lives in a single or double-wide manufactured home in Orchard Mesa. How close am I?
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 12:41 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Dang, Proteus; what have you got against Orchard Mesa? I happen to like it here. Granted, we have a severe lack of shopping and other niceties, but we have the highest meth-addict teacher to student ratio in the valley.
I do have a nice view of the river, though……
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 12:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’m with Curmudgeon. Orchard Mesa is OK. Slightly less air pollution than downtown.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 12:53 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
By the way, Wagner is just a smug, snide, humorless (but far too fond of what he thinks of as wit) fool, who serves as a watered-down replacement for those people who are sad that they can’t get G. Gordon Liddy on the radio anymore……
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 1:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Gee proteus,
I wasn’t asking for him to state his affiliations, just questioning his position from a ‘casual observer’ status.
He definitely has a ‘dog in this fight’, but he would much prefer that a little detail like that not be known to everybody.
And let’s see.
The latest working definition I have seen on ‘neo-conservative’ is a recent convert from liberalism.
No, I have been intelligent for my entire life.
The age is wrong.
The housing is wrong.
And in the County, but not OM.
Pretty much missed on all guesses.
But it was a fun exercise, was it not?
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 1:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I do not know Mr. Wagner and I am sure that his family loves him. But He is a neo-con elitist whose vapid commentary does not impress me.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 2:34 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis Leon Johnson writes: “To pretend to be ‘unbiased’ the letter writer is about as dishonest as one can be.”
Just what is your problem Mr. Johnson? It is a fact that I am registered as an unafilliated voter exactly as I stated. It is also a fact that I vote for candidates from both the Republican and Democrat party at every election depending upon which in my estimation is the more likely to act as a statesperson rather than a politician.
Now which particular statement that I wrote is dishonest? You know nothing about me or my political predilections, and I take great exception to your personal attack that I am being dishonest (a violation of the rules of this forum). Get your facts straight, stop making baseless assumptions and cease with the personal attacks.
Class of 52 aka J. Eugene Fox
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 3:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Now Mr. Fox, you made a point of trying to appear ‘unbiased’ in your opinion of Mr. Wagners political viewpoints, when in fact, you are an extremely liberal person.
I also, am ‘unaffiliated’, but I do not pretend to be an unbiased, innocent bystander either.
To pretend to be something that one is not is dishonest.
Unless there is a word that you would prefer?
And, as far as knowing your political predilections, you have been writing letters to the editor for a very long time Mr. Fox.
Enough of them have been published that, for you to pretend nobody noticed, is nothing less than intellectual dishonesty.
Stop making baseless attacks on other people for expressing their political beliefs and discuss the issues presented on facts, not political rhetoric.
And, furthermore, I made no personal attack on any person. So stop making baseless accusations.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 3:40 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I don’t read anywhere in Mr. Fox’s letter where he states that he is “unbiased”. The term I see is “unaffiliated”, and the remainder of this letter expresses his opinion of Mr. Wagner’s daily rants against “liberals”, the left, and/or Democrats. Mr. Fox’s opinion of Wagner, by the way, is shared by many, including myself.
Willis Johnson seems to declare that he CAN be as biased as he wants,(true), and he must think that he can reserve the right to attack any one who has a different view than he does, as has always been his M.O.
It seems to me that the only “baseless” attacks in this dialogue come from Willis Leon Johnson.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 3:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hmmm, interesting.
I made no ‘attacks’ on anybody, but this is the second time I have been accused of such.
But typical of ‘the usual suspects’ facts don’t matter, only the charges.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - having had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Fox on several occasions, I would characterize his “affiliation” as: “well-educated, well-read, well-spoken, rational, reasonable, intelligent American.” By definition, these qualities preclude him from possessing even a trace amount of Republican (especially Mesa County Republican) DNA.
Also, dictionary.com defines (American Patriot loves this kind of stuff) “neoconservatism” as follows”
n. An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s: “The neo-conservatism of the 1980s is a replay of the New Conservatism of the 1950s, which was itself a replay of the New Era philosophy of the 1920s” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:11 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh now Proteus, his ‘affiliation’ is not the issue.
He attempted to present himself as someone with a position on the subject, ie; an innocent bystander.
Our definitions really aren’t that far apart. Your definition is just wordier.
Neo-con = former liberal.
But I was never a liberal.
I’ve always been smart, ’cause I descended from Humans instead of from apes.
It’s a genetic thing. My parents were smart too.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - If you claim you are descended from humans (and not another form or life), that means you must believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and your ancestors played with T-Rex’s outside the entrance to their cave. But the real question is; Brother, are you square with the Baby Jesus? Ask Mr. Fox how old the earth is, go on, I challenge you to ask the question of him directly.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:29 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Gene Fox - welcome to the community.com board game. Playing in this arena is definitely a step down from the rational, reasonable, intelligent world you came from; but remember, this is the Grand Valley - the land that time forgot.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:37 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“I’ve always been smart, ’cause I descended from Humans instead of from apes.” Yessir, smart as a whip…
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:41 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Careful guys, it’s a Freedom of Religion thing.
From previous letters. Mr. Fox swears by evolution as his religion.
I’m just trying to show some respect for his beliefs here.
But, it’s nice to know that everybody wants to pertect him.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
toaaronuu
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:37 pm PM This User Report this comment
“I’ve always been smart, ’cause I descended from Humans instead of from apes.” Yessir, smart as a whip…
Sniping from the sidelines with nothing to add to the discussion?
Interesting, very interesting.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 4:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It makes not a whit of difference whether we came into existence “as is,” or from primordial slime. The important thing is that we humans are at the top of the food chain with the brainpower and the tools to destroy the planet we call home.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 5:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
See?
We do agree on some things.
Mostly intelligent conversations and discussions.
Care to give lessons to them thar other folks?
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 5:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ states: “Now Mr. Fox, you made a point of trying to appear ‘unbiased’ in your opinion of Mr. Wagners political viewpoints…”
Really? Quote for us the sentence where I “try to appear unbiased”. We both know you will not be able to do so. The only intellectual dishonesty here is exhibited by WLJ who makes wild accusations rather than debating the issues.
And by the way another false assumption of yours: Evolution is not my religion. Since the principles of evolution are a fact of life, that would be like stating that gravity is my religion.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 6:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
For as intelligent as everybody says you are J, Eugene, yer coming up short.
” Writing as an unaffiliated voter, ”
Deliberate attempt the pretend impartiality?
” Really? Quote for us the sentence where I “try to appear unbiased”. ”
Strawman, mr fox. You should know better.
Now would you care to debate on the issues?
Or whine because I didn’t fall for your attempted subterfuge?
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 6:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - exhibiting superior intelligence is not necessarily attempting subterfuge, but simply an exhibition of superior intelligence. You need to face the reality that you’ve run up against a superior intellect in J. Eugene Fox, and there’s nothing you can do about it. You need to accept your new status with grace and humility. Face it, man, you just don’t have the genes to compete with this guy.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 7:30 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
i find it simply amazing as well as amusing that everybody needs to be “left” or “right” to feel superior…i am truly unaffiliated with any party due to lack of agreement with most of both sides and agreement with some of both sides…to me, the labels of conservative/neo-con and liberal have no meaning whatsoever anymore….take a look at what happend when the “conservative” republicrats ran all arms of the federal government into the ground with absolutely needless pork…at least the democrats force us to pay for garbage immediately instead of billing our kids later…something that confuses me, however….why can’t we take the best of both sides and utilize some common sense to find common ground?
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 9:37 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ quotes the following: ” Writing as an unaffiliated voter, ” as a supposed indication that I pretended to be impartial.
Since I am in fact an unaffiliated voter, then you have no basis whatsoever for your repeated accusations that I was pretending to be impartial. I made no statements at all about impartiality. I have to question your comprehension of the English language.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 9:40 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Proteus: I am overwhelmed by your kind comments. I have been trying to guess your identity but with little luck.
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 10:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“superior intellect” and mr fox in the same sentence?
Now that’s a stretch.
Still quibbling over such a minor little detail? If your intellect is ’superior’ I think I wanna be about 40 steps above ’superior’…
Oh, I already are….
Posted May 8th, 2008 at 10:11 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hitekrednek,
” why can’t we take the best of both sides and utilize some common sense to find common ground? ”
There is no ‘common sense ‘ from the liberal side.
I mean look at what they choose to argue about.
Talk about a non issue, and they’ve already resorted to name calling and trying to impugn my intelligence.
But, they did descend from apes, and it shows when they act like this.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 7:10 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Classof52 - The anonymity of this board is what makes it so much fun to participate in when one is in the mood for engaging in some generally non-intellectual banter. For those of us whose identities carry a certain amount of name recognition (good, bad, or indifferent)within the community, it takes on a somewhat cathartic role. I can say things here that I wouldn’t dream of uttering in polite society (smile). For a select number of “regulars”, it’s also something to do as they’re phasing in and out of the effects of medications designed to control their aberrant and sometimes psychotic personalities.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 7:39 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
yeah, I only log on here when the dope is working fine.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 8:00 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
From an earlier post.( I only have to keep reposting this for the slow learners)
So, you think I’m anonymous?
I’m not listed in the phone book, because I choose not to be listed.
While I can be located on the internet, if you know where to look, the information is not readily available because the people that need to know me, already do know me.
Anybody that I feel needs to know me, I will invite them into my circle of acquaintances.
Here’s a hint; my middle initial may, or may not, be “L”.
The rest is correct.
Maybe I stay unobserved on the sidelines for a reason.
I pay my bills.
I pay my taxes.
My neighbors like me.
My fellow church members like me.
The people I meet on the street like me.
But to them I’m “anonymous” because they don’t know my name or anything about me.
I don’t get telemarketers, or junk mail.
Unwanted solicitors do not come to my door.
I run my business, EARN my profit, and MIND MY OWN BUSINESS.
I do not tell other people how to live their lives, or spend their money.
If you want some of my money, offer me goods or services that I need or want.
Try to force money from my pocket into yours by government fiat, expect me to be disagreeable.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 8:31 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Weren’t we talking about Rick Wagner? Just curious.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 8:35 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Originally, yes.
However it deteriorated to a discussion of how ’superior’ mr fox is, and the wonders of anonymity, and why some try to hide.
I have seen, firsthand, the trials and tribulations of identity theft and took steps to be difficult to be stolen from by the less honest members of our society.
Wanna know how much it costs to ‘disappear’ from the internet?
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 8:57 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc - your right. One of the rules I wish the “powers that be” at the Sentinel would impose on the “comment” section of community.com is that all comments must be directly (or at least obliquely) related to the subject at hand. This would at least keep us somewhat on track. However, the kids running the site seem to have a problem with that. If such a rule were in place, we could have much more civilized and productive discussions than we do now. For our non-productive rants we could switch over to the “user forum” portion of the site, which is virtually unused. Any comments?
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 9:10 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I agree.
Post #1 was on topic.
post #2 dropped the topic and went into defensive mode, and bragging on how ’superior’ the letter writer is.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 9:33 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
When a person repeatly tells everyone how intelligent they are,I am reminded of something I heard long ago. A shallow stream makes more noise than a deep river. Many of these shallow streams tend to run dry and never make it very far.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 9:37 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Kemosabe,
I agree, but I have never heard Mr. Wagner brag about his ’superior intellectual capacities’…
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 9:55 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I did not say Mr. Wagner was bragging about his ’superior intellectual capacities’ I had someone else in mind. The vast majority of people have average IQs. Those with superior intelligence usually speak very little. It’s is better to be thought of as an idiot than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 9:56 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
By all means, use the forums if you want to go off topic. As a frequent user of various forums, I’d love to see them grow more active on Community.GJSentinel.com.
But we’re not gonna make you do it.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 10:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
kemosabe,
I know, but I’m just trying to stay ‘on topic’ while I agree with your statement.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 10:05 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I think the ‘topic’ was character assassination of Mr. Wagner, an entity that, so far to the best of my knowledge, has never visited, nor posted, in this forum.
If they truly wanted to have a spirited debate on the subject, I’m certain that Mr. Wagner would welcome them to his blog.
But that carries entirely too much risk. (I think they may be too skeered to try it)
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 10:17 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Neither Wagner’s Blog, or his column, are accessible for comments (unless Willis Leon Johnson has a secret password).
Do you think that maybe that is done on purpose?
Apparently, you can somehow e-mail him, and see how that “discussion” goes.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 10:25 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis,
I do not recall mentioning Mr. Wagners’ character. Just his judgement and his rhetoric.
Kemosabe,
I am still not sure he got your point.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 10:35 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc,
I can assure you he does not get my point. I’ve been following these discussions for months and it is very clear that some people hear (read) what they want to hear (read) and disregard the rest. I thought I had learned to ignore such people. Apparently I have not. I’ll try again.
As far as I know Mr.Wagners’ character is beyond reproach. His political views are obvious. He does seem to believe that Democrats are all evil and all Republicans are angels.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 10:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I cannot speak for Mr. Wagner, however…
Your blanket statement; ” He does seem to believe that Democrats are all evil and all Republicans are angels. ” is a little off the mark.
Mr. Wagner probably has a problem with those who pretend to be a Democrat, when they have no values in common with the majority of people that have a loyalty to the Democrat party.
They shout from the rooftops that they are democrats, while in the ’smoke-filled back rooms’ they work to undermine those people they would rule over with an iron fist.
There are numerous ‘republicans’ with the same problems.
McKainnedy is borderline.
It is good to know that dc doesn’t understand the concept of a comedy script.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 11:22 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. McCains comments are not scripted on the Daily Show. He was asked questions and he answered them. Are you seriously trying to suggest that he allowed comedy writers to write his answers? C’mon Willis.
I’m leaving for a vacation. I will leave you to the hounds, Willis. Take care. I will check in in about a week.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 11:26 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ok, real slow now.
It is a comedy show.
Yes it is scripted for the comedy factor.
They use cue cards, teleprompters, and people who whisper into microphones attached to the tiny little earbuds in both Jon, and his guests ears.
It’s designed to make people laugh, hence the ‘comedy’ aspect comes into play.
it’s not real.
It’s made for TV comedy.
It’s all pretend.
They are imaginary answers, written to make people laugh.
How many ways must it be said?
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 12:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
The following is true comedy:
We can achieve peace in the middle-east.
The Iraqis will welcome us with open arms.
We can drill our way to energy independence.
We can turn shale into oil without destroying Western Colorado’s environment.
Corporate excutives deserve their exhorbtant salaries.
George W. Bush is the greatest president in U.S. history.
The earth has enough resources to feed, cloth, and provide medical care, an automobile, a home,and a color TV, to over 6 billion (and growing by the minute) people. And it won’t harm the environment at all.
Mary was a virgin. The earth was created in 7 days.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 1:11 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis-a nephew of mine just happens to be a writer for the Daily Show. DC is correct, you are incorrect. The answers of politicians such as McCain are NOT scripted, the questions however, are.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 2:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Kemosabe, this may be more what we’re dealing with regarding you-know-who. A large percentage of these symptoms have been exhibited by the subject right here in our fun little community.
—
There are several types of schizophrenia, so signs and symptoms vary. In general, schizophrenia symptoms include:
* Beliefs not based on reality (delusions), such as the belief that there’s a conspiracy against you
* Seeing or hearing things that don’t exist (hallucinations), especially voices
* Incoherent speech
* Neglect of personal hygiene
* Lack of emotions
* Emotions inappropriate to the situation
* Angry outbursts
* Catatonic behavior
* A persistent feeling of being watched
* Trouble functioning at school and work
* Social isolation
* Clumsy, uncoordinated movements
—
Delusions, especially delusions of granduer, are the first sign, and the subject has exhibited that symptom quite a few times right here in this thread.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 2:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh boy…..this will end well.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 3:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curmudgeon, that made me laugh so hard that I snorted! How right you are!!
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 3:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
My wife does that. We call it a “snork”.
Let’s face it, calling someone schizophrenic will anger them, if:
A: They’re not crazy.
or,
B: They *are* crazy.
So, you know what’s going to happen.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 3:41 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Just sit back and watch out. Although it probably would make me a little snarky too!
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 3:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Aww, come on guys, I’m worried for the health of our friend…;)
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 3:53 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Besides I’m merely suggesting there might be symptoms, not making any diagnosis.
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 4:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh my…….
Posted May 9th, 2008 at 4:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Your concern is underwhelming.
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