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I read the May 6 editorial about third-grade CSAP scores and the relationship you think they should have to the passage of an upcoming bond issue for new and upgraded facilities. This conclusion defies all logic. I cannot begin to understand how you could possibly think they could or should be related.
If the bond issue does not pass, then the students of School District 51 can look forward to overcrowded classrooms, possible split sessions, and Orchard Mesa Middle School students can look forward to attending an outdated inadequate facility because, according to your conclusion third graders did not score well on CSAP.
Unfortunately, children come to school at various levels in their learning, differing economic and social backgrounds and sometimes with numerous issues in their lives. This is not a “spin” as you said in your editorial. This is the hard reality of what schools deal with each and everyday. These are children not simply a number.
What is most often overlooked when comparing CSAP is the fact that CSAP is a “snapshot” of a child’s learning at that moment in time. To say we are going to compare that “snapshot” to children from the previous year and the previous year before that is not an accurate assessment of learning.
You are comparing student A in 2006 with student B in 2007, and then comparing both of them with student C in 2008. The only thing they truly have in common is the fact they were third graders when they took their first CSAP exam. It does show one may have done better or worse than the other, but it does not show how much the individual learned from year to year.
Teachers and the district are supporters of accountability and assessment, but it must be measured in multiple ways. Using a single test score to determine if new facilities will be built is punitive to students and district staff and is gross misuse of assessments.
The success of students and staff is not about how well students perform on single assessment. It is about the development of learners who are knowledgeable, who are emotionally and physically healthy, who are civic minded, who are problem solvers, self sufficient and ready for the world beyond the classroom.
As an educator, I will not give in to the pressure of a numbers game. Instead, I promise to do what is best for all children to learn each and everyday. I will support the bond issue when it comes to a vote. I only hope you will have all children and their total wellbeing in mind when you write an editorial about test scores next time.
CHRIS HOBBS
Grand Junction
17 Responses to “CSAPs and bond item are two different issues”
Posted May 14th, 2008 at 12:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I believe Ms. Hobbs to be a former president of the MVEA and an apologist for the total faliure of this district to improve. The writer is, of course, correct that 2008 third grade reading students are different students than the 2007 students. Regrettably their performance for the last four years has decilined by almost 20%. What the writer won’t tell you is that as those 2007 students progress, their performance levels also decreases evey year — primarily due to drastically declining math scores. So, look at the numbers either way, at best it indicates far too many individuals ignoring the “numbers game” and doind as they see fit, not as the community decided when it set the standards. Ms. Hobbs should open her own school district.
And she is correct, there are several measures other than CSAP, and they all show the same flat or negative trends. If her union is truly a supporter of accountability, let them come to the bargaining table with a plan to remove even 2% of the worst teachers/administraors every year. Better yet, make it the worst 5%. At this point, some of us would settle for a plan to get rid of the worse ONE teacher and administrator.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 8:29 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
The letter writer mentioned this tiny little detail, and then glossed over the implications:
” What is most often overlooked when comparing CSAP is the fact that CSAP is a “snapshot” of a child’s learning at that moment in time. ”
The ‘csap’ is a snapshot of what has been crammed down their throats during the previous two or three weeks in an effort to cover up for a failed curriculum over the last several years of indoctrination in studies other than ‘reading, writing, and ‘rithmetic’, as well as other necessary educational needs of a person expected to enter society after twelve years of school as a well read, intelligent human being.
Every child deserves a decent education that will prepare them for the real world.
Every child deserves to be taught those skills necessary to become a productive member of society.
Every child deserves to be educated at his or her level of educational advancement instead of being forced to learn at a rate other then their brain is programmed to learn at.
No child should be forced to sit idly by while waiting for the slowest child in the class to catch up.
Likewise the slowest child should not be forced to grasp concepts that their brains are incapable of grasping at that period in their learning curve.
The public indoctrination system is determined to teach at the average level, and any child above, or below that level WILL learn at the average level because the system is not geared to accept any deviation from that goal.
Our drop out rate is ridiculous and is a direct result of this “shove it down every childs throat at the same rate”.
How many children dropped out because they were bored and grew to hate school because they felt they were just wasting time?
How many dropped out because they were force fed information at a rate they couldn’t accommodate mentally and kept falling farther behind?
The teachers blame the parents, but both parents are out working to pay the taxes that support the failed system and don’t have either the time, or emotional energy to combat the drivel shoved into their childrens minds by ‘teachers’ with political agendas they would prefer to shove down the students throats, instead of subjects necessary for success in their adult lives.
The schools have assumed the power to over rule parents on birthcontrol, abortion, premarital sex, and nearly every other aspect of the childs life that is not the domain of the education system.
So, if the bond issue fails, it’s not because of the csap scores, it will be because the taxpayer will have finally said “ENOUGH!”
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 8:44 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ wrote: “The public indoctrination system is determined to teach at the average level, and any child above, or below that level WILL learn at the average level because the system is not geared to accept any deviation from that goal.”
I have only a single data point here: my daughter graduated from Grand Junction High School about 4 years ago. But on the basis of that evidence, I would have to say that you are full of baloney, WLJ. She received an outstanding education with individualised and specialised instruction at advanced levels in subjects where she had some talent and interest. At art museums all over Europe, she was explaining the history and background of famous paintings to us based upon what she had learned in humanities and art classes at GJHS.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 9:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
lef, the fact that there are actually numerous students that graduate each year is irrelevant to the issue under discussion.
It’s the percentage of dropouts that you should be concerned with.
I’m so happy that your daughter graduated from highschool.
We can sit around here all day and play oneupsmanship all day. Let me tell you about 3 of my Grand daughters that graduated, National Honor Society, two already possess BA’s, and the third teaches children the truth about liberals in a liberal college while she is attending classes there.
” But on the basis of that evidence, I would have to say that you are full of baloney ”
So your one daughter proves the educational system is perfect and a resounding success?
I would say, that based on the evidence, viewable any day at a large variety of retail shops and fast food places, you’re full of something a lot less desirable than “baloney”.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 9:52 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ wrote: “So your one daughter proves the educational system is perfect and a resounding success?”
No, it proves that your blanket statement (which I quoted) written without qualifications or exceptions of any sort is baloney. You tend to see things in black or white which leads you to stereotype people (such as all “liberals”). If I have learned anything in my nearly 74 years on this planet, it is that people are enormously complex and can be very rarely categorized in groups.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 10:06 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
No, the dropout rates PROVE my statement.
There are exceptions to every rule, but in nearly 74 years on this planet, that completely slipped right on past yer nose.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 10:35 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
All this info, even without the use of water boarding. Jewels, Jewels, Jewels
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 10:37 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
yeah, but it’s more like Willis boarding….
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 10:56 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ wrote: “…and the third teaches children the truth about liberals in a liberal college while she is attending classes there.”
Glad to hear your gdaughter is in a “liberal” college whatever that means. However, a good university has a way of making us reexamine our assumptions and beliefs. So you may be somewhat disappointed in your expectations after your gDaughter has been exposed to the great ideas of the world.
In my own case, coming from an ultra conservative small town background and a fundamentalist father, I was more than a little shocked to find that my mentors, especially the religious ones, had been-shall we say- somewhat less than truthful about the history and state of the world. The university taught me to question assumptions based on nothing but faith and look at the actual documented evidence. I am now like most scientists a confirmed skeptic. I try not to use the term “believe” since that implies acceptance on faith. I accept nothing on faith. I require evidence. I either know that something is likely to be true based on available evidence or I do not know. I have no problems with anyone else choosing to accept ideas on faith so long as they do not try to convince the rest of us that their faith based notions constitute truth.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 11:07 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Actually, she learned her early American history from books written prior to the turn of the 2oth century.
So what she learned was not the more modern, fashionable version of rewritten history.
She also learned manners from the same era by authors with a desire to write down real stuff instead of “I wish this what had really happened” written down by, apparently, the authors of books they gave you to study in college.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 11:21 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ: She also learned manners from the same era by authors with a desire to write down real stuff instead of “I wish this what had really happened” written down by, apparently, the authors of books they gave you to study in college.
Not in the great universities I attended and taught. Perhaps in places like Bob Jones “University”. Did you go to a school like that?
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 11:26 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
uhoh, jef went to ‘great universities’.
That must mean that he got a ‘great’ education, and anybody that went to a ‘not great’ university doesn’t possess a superior intellect.
Bummer.
I guess that ’splains why all us hicks is so dumb and can’t unnerstand nuthin’….
well golly gee.
He taught at them too, which helps explain some more questions that I wasn’t going to ask.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 11:30 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Class of 52
And speaking of backing up what you say, What colleges and universities would those be? What was your major? and when did you teach at these
“great universities”
Thank you
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 11:46 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
one.voice, you must always keep in mind that
” CSAPs and bond item are two different issues “,
is all about how wonderful, and how educated jef is, and the stellar intelligence of his offspring.
It has nothing to do with the actual topic under discussion.
I know better, but it so much fun egging him on sometimes.
I apologize to the rest of the members for my selfish attitude.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 11:57 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
why would anyone engage in ridiculous non-conversation with these rottweilers and stalkers? what is the point? it’s only a headbanging and soulsucking exercise.
i thought this was a venue for ideas and rational discussion, not some childish military game of perceived attrition by the self-appointed self-important ones who attempt to “wear the enemy down” by offering little of substance except annoyance, distraction and background noise.
better to just ignore them and keep your soul intact
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 12:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mike, I like your style.
Posted May 15th, 2008 at 12:33 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
One Voice wrote: “Class of 52
And speaking of backing up what you say, What colleges and universities would those be? What was your major? and when did you teach at these
“great universities”
Thank you
I was a professor of biochemistry for roughly half of my career at the Universities of Wisconsin and Kansas. I was also head of the Cell Biology program at the National Science Foundation in Washington D.C. for two years and for most of the remainder I was head of research and development for a couple of large pharmaceutical companies.
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