Posted 3 months, 14 days ago in 
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Bond issue would allow smaller classes
Sicne some media sources continue to see the glass as half empty along with one self-appointed observer of District 51 schools, I would encourage community members to consider a few things.
First, bond issues have nothing to do with test scores.
Since statistics and data seem to be so important in the lives of some adults a fact that is proven shows that when class size is smaller kids learn more. We are overcrowded, hence the issue concerning bond approval and moving this community forward.
On the topic of testing, please remember that each year the tests are given to a new class of third graders and those kids may have had more time at home to read or less time depending on the parents of those particular kids. Scores will vary.
Secondly, I haven’t seen any data that proves to me that when these third graders or any other class are 20-25 years old they will be less of a person for not meeting adult set standards that many adults could not meet on some test, CSAP or otherwise.
Third, testing is only one piece in determining outcomes in student achievement and I am proud to say that in this district, there is a great deal of achievement going on that is far more important than statistics and data on testing. Those are measurements that do not and cannot predict the success of a student as a contributing member of this community or society in general.
With reference to the “sky is falling” attitude, Doug Stark presents to this community there are choices. Here is one I would suggest to him. Be part of the solution rather than being Mr. Negative. The vast majority of district employees and community members are extremely happy about our mission for students and the direction we are headed.
This school district does a great job for every student every day. We should be reminded of that as business owners, public servants, medical personnel, contractors, etc., are some of the bright stars who believe it or not, got a pretty good education from good old District 51.
STEVE PHILLIPS
Grand Junction
Discovery of weapons proves nothing
According to a news conference in Baghdad on May 7, reported by the LA Times, Major General Kevin Bergner and a group of munitions experts inspected captured weapons to find out where they came from.
45 rocket propelled grenades
1800 mortars
575 explosives
After carefully examining each unit, the experts found no logos, no stamps, no unique features, no identification of any kind … zero.
This doesn’t prove they were made in Iran, and doesn’t prove they weren’t. It just proves that knee-jerk reactions are usually wrong and sometimes dangerous.
RICHARD L STOVER
Grand Junction
Accepting defeat is asign of a good leader
As I listen to Hillary state that “she is a fighter” and her willingness not to accept the inevitable, I can’t help but be thankful she is not the commander in chief.
L.W. HUNLEY
Grand Junction
49 Responses to “May 18 printed letters”
Posted May 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
If District 51 one is so good, why is it so mediocre? Why do so few graduates go on to “real” colleges as compared to many other school districts of comparable size. If District 51 is so good, who do the few graduates who do go onto college have to settle for third and fourth tier schools like Mesa State, Ft. Lewis and Western State?
Posted May 16th, 2008 at 3:18 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
The bond issue would just give more money to a failed system and expect different results from the same people that caused the failure in the first place.
Now, about that cool million that was just laying around, unallocated, that was given to Mesa State…
Or the new roof that is needed for FMHS, with no funds in the districts treasury to pay for it.
The funds could be transferred from administration salaries to cover it.
That would turn it into ‘real money’ so the administration could get a grip on the financial aspects of running the school system.
Posted May 16th, 2008 at 6:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I have to agree with the above posts and add that although as a general rule I don’t pick out typos, because I make them myself, the first word in a letter saying that the school district is top-notch should be correctly spelled. It sort of takes away from the arguement. Even an old lady like me knows how to use spell-check.
Posted May 17th, 2008 at 6:16 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. Phillips, I know Mr. Stark pretty well. I know he has been involved with school district committees for years. He served on accountability committees at the elementary, middle, high school and district levels. He served as chairperson of the elementary, high school and district committees. He served on the committee that developed the current District Strategic Plan, working extensively with the Continuous Student Success subcommittee. He has served as a representative of the school district at state and national educational reform meetings, working as a co-presenter with a District Superintendent at a state meeting. He has spoken before the State Board of Education for the District. And he will tell you, all of these efforts have been for naught because in those 11 years the level of student success in the district has not risen, and recently has started to fall. But Mr. Stark’s hand remains raised and he is more than willing to serve again, but the Superintendent and the BOE have communicated to him three years ago, through the Assistant Superintendent, his services are not welcomed.
The problem is not any unwillingness of his to serve. It is rather his belief in the phrase that used to appear over the district’s assessment office door, “In God we trust, all others bring data.” He is crazy enough to question statements made by district officials rather than accepting them in blind obedience. He knows data, math and statistics well enough to dig through the CDE site to check district pronouncements. Once after presenting data about real graduation rates and achievement gaps between groups of students to district accountability the current Assistant Superintendent asked, “Doug, what are you doing presenting those numbers in public?” His reply of, “Sir, the numbers are correct,” was met with the statement, “I know they are correct, we have people checking your numbers, they are always correct.” He continued, “But, the press is here tonight”.
That administrator’s attitude combined with your all too believable statement that, “The vast majority of district employees and community members are extremely happy about our mission for students and the direction we are headed,” are exactly the source of the problem for this district.
So, whether it be serving again at some future date on a committee, or in occasional letters to the editor of local papers, or in postings in this forum, I believe Mr. Stark will continue to serve as district irritant because he believes the adage from a district where improvement did occur; “if you are not using data, you are simply another person with an opinion.” It seems as though some of the data he has used for years is starting to make some people in the community pay a little more attention to what the district is doing, or in this case, what the district is not doing – meeting the educational needs of its students.
But then Mr. Phillips, you already knew who Mr. Stark was because until very recently you were a district administrator.
I believe I am accurate in writing about Mr. Stark, because I am Mr. Stark. Mr. Phillips, convince your colleagues that “the direction we are headed” is not great and you won’t have to spend anymore time “trying to kill the messenger.”
Posted May 17th, 2008 at 7:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. Stark,
You have gotten my attention. I have not been involved with the School Board, however, I have seen a deterioration of schools in general over the last few years.
I would be very interested in what you think is wrong, your solutions and who on the school board you supported. I will not be judgmental. I am sincerely interested.
Posted May 17th, 2008 at 7:51 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, I certainly hope that the old adage of “One Person can make a difference.”
I, for one, am on the side of oneperson.
Posted May 17th, 2008 at 8:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. Stark,
I don’t have any children or grandchildren in District 51 schools, but I do pay school taxes, and something just sticks in my craw when I see a letter where the writer goes to whacking at somebody and pretends he doesn’t know who the object of the whack is. Mr. Stark, I don’t know whether you are right or he is right, but judging by your letter you are a man with enough guts to say what needs to be said. And I would like to hear it. Tell us what to fix, and if you can’t tell us how to fix it that is OK, at least we will know where to start.
Posted May 17th, 2008 at 10:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, so Oneperson is in fact Mr. Stark. I very much applaud his notion that data are crucial and that without data, you have only opinion.
However, I would also like to know what qualifications he has since his involvement in school administration matters over the years would imply some expertise or formal training. Since Oneperson asked me to supply evidence of my credentials a few days back (which I did on this forum), then turnabout is only fair play. Tell us about your credentials in school administration Oneperson or Mr. Stark, whichever you prefer.
Posted May 17th, 2008 at 10:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Speaking of credentials, so Sugarfoot, how many degrees do you have and from which top tier institutions?
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 6:41 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Orpheus - I have two (2) Bachelor of Arts degrees from the University of Colorado-Boulder, and a Master of Arts degree from Harvard University. Those degrees and $3.75 get me a medium Chai latte at Trader Joe’s Coffee Shop, the meeting place for anyone of importance in Grand Junction.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 8:08 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sugarfoot is absolutely correct about college degrees and their real value in discourse on issues. While one must respect all knowledge, a degree in one area of concentration does not translate into knowledge of any other and, it is important to remember that books and formal education merely provide a starting point or structure for further study upon a subject. As one who has several degrees, and a university instructor, once told me. With all of that studying, sometimes over a decade or so, the dissertations they compose MAY contain, and he stressed “MAY” contain a grain of previously undiscovered knowledge or truth that can be considered a real contribution to their field.
Above, grandmasix states that she has observed a deterioration of our educational system over the last several years. One should not doubt that at all. However, we have been aware of serious deterioration in the entire American educational system, from grade school through the highest levels of academia, and it is has existed for decades. And, while most individuals do not read books by academics, some of the PhD’s, some of us do, and are greatly disappointed with what we observe. What we find is the grossest of errors in logic and unsupported or misrepresentation of facts. We all too frequently observe too much emotion, and too little scholarship and a very serious handicap in placing events in their proper perspective.
What the lady observes is real, but merely the tip of the iceberg.
It is interesting to note how many college professors, in particular those who have been in the field for decades keep repeating the same thing. It is that well over half of the students entering a college or university are not prepared, either emotionally or intellectually, to undertake the rigors of the task of serious study. Trained to “be taught” as opposed to learning, and for far too many, that is the first thing they have to “learn.”
On several occasions, it has been my pleasure to speak with fairly recent college graduates, one from Mesa State, and the other from CSU. Both told me the same thing about the quality of graduates. Both stated that, if they were an employer, they would not even consider hiring fully 90% of their fellow graduates, and would have serious doubts about considering another 5%. True, both individuals are probably more serious and devoted to education but, it is still a very harsh indictment of the institutions from which they have graduated.
If one wishes to understand the problems in school districts and in institutions of higher learning, one need look no further than Mesa State, and as to how the leadership of that institution measures its success, and where they spend their funds. It is on sports facilities, and in the erection and renovation of buildings, that to please the alumni.
They reflect the basic problem with almost the entire educational system. It has become but another “industry.” And, like any industry, those within it all too often serve themselves first.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 8:17 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bummer!
For all the verbosity involved, I must agree with the author of post #11.
(with a few caveats)
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Laitres: “As one who has several degrees, and a university instructor, once told me. With all of that studying, sometimes over a decade or so, the dissertations they compose MAY contain, and he stressed “MAY” contain a grain of previously undiscovered knowledge or truth that can be considered a real contribution to their field.”
My disappointment comes as a result of reading that grossly ungrammatical construction. But perhaps it is just an extended typo.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 11:32 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Classof52, I believe you were asked for your credentials by one.voice back on the csap/bond issues are two items, post #13. I did not challenge anyone’s credentials.
If you can type, you have credentials enough for this forum.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 11:44 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oneperson
You are entirely correct.
Class of 52.
Apparently it was the similarity in user names that confused you. Rest assured that our interest in your bone fides had nothing to do with oneperson. We are sorry for the confusion, and by the way, we didn’t catch which pharmaceutical companies you worked for. Perhaps you would be kind enough to post that information. We will be watching.
Thankyou
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 12:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Classof52;
And, expect another phone call, right?
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curmudgeon: “Classof52;
And, expect another phone call, right?”
Wait until the fundamentalist locals see my next biweekly column in the Free Press (week from this Tuesday) on “Gay” marriage. This will cause people like WLJ and others of the close-minded fraternity in Mesa county to go absolutely ballistic. I expect lots of phone calls from that one.
For my last column(in which I took on the extremism of certain environmentalists such as Greenpeace), I had only a single call. This is probably because the column would have met with the approval of the conservatives but not the radical liberals. Many of the folks around here like to categorize you as either one of them (a conservative) or else as a flaming liberal. (WLJ and OnePerson-or is it one voice?-are especially good at this black and white thinking) They are puzzled and do not know how to respond when someone demonstrates that it is possible to have different approaches depending upon the issue in question; nor do they know what it means to be politically unaffiliated.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
One person wrote:”… and by the way, we didn’t catch which pharmaceutical companies you worked for. Perhaps you would be kind enough to post that information. We will be watching.”
Why would you want to know that? This is personal information not related to any topics under discussion. When and if it ever becomes relevant, say a discussion of the costs of doing research, I will be happy to post that information as a way of confirming that my view is based on some knowledge of the question.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 1:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Classof52
OOPs there you go again. But we think you might be right. We think oneperson might be one.voice. Did you notice the conservative line he always takes, and how oneperson and that group one.voice are never posting at the same time? How neither one offers any source for what they say. Heck, they probably both have short hair. And we are hearing rumors around our office that both of these knuckleheads cook and eat prairie dog. Well there you are, proof positive. I don’t blame you one bit for not giving oneperson your personal info, but how about sharing it with a fellow traveler down the liberal path. We’re OK and you’re OK, and we promise not to share any of your info with oneperson. What were those dates again when you worked for the pharmaceutical companies? It’s cool.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 2:07 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sounds like an interesting forum. Identities
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It does look like it’s to the ” I showed you mine, now you show me yours.”
And I’m all out of film….
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I drove by the Avalon theater the other evening.
Who was the guy on his knees praying to the guy in the bathtub?
Nice candles and the whole schmear.
I figured it was somebody from this board.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 2:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
classof52,
I feel left out. Why wasn’t I included in your “list” of flaming conservatives? Was it something I posted? Does “politically unaffiliated” mean the same as disenfranchised? At least that oneperson group included me in their list. Anyway, I think you are wrong. The onevoice guy only writes about the school stuff. Curmudgeon might be a likely suspect. I’ve never liked him anyway, although I do find myself strangely attracted to him. What did you say that article you are writing in the Free Press was about?
Is there some way I can get on your list? It’s a credibility thing.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 2:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Classof52 reminds me of an incidence of using extremely poor grammar in one of my posts. For that, I must apologize. It illustrates one thing, that at times we see only what we want to see and that, when reviewing our own written words, we see what we believe we wrote instead of what we actually wrote. I thank Classof52 for his reminder that I should exercise greater care in my use of the language.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 3:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh guys, I did start a forum about all of this off subject stuff.
It is the first one, so before Todd gets onto the last few here, you should go there.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 4:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
American Patriot wrote: “I feel left out. Why wasn’t I included in your “list” of flaming conservatives”
Well, I would not want you to feel left out, but I do not recall using the phrase “flaming conservatives”.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 4:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
classof52,
Of course you didn’t, darlin’.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 7:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well Sugarfoot, good credentials to be sure, although CU ranks in the top 100 (US News), I wouldn’t call that top tier, but way to go on the Harvard degree. Did they teach you that holier-than-thou attitude at CU and Harvard or did you have that before you arrived there? I know many people with degrees from the top tier institutions, and they have much more humility than you. Do you commune with the same type of people at Trader Joes? How did someone with your intellect and credentials end up in Grand Junction? I would think that you should be living in Boulder! I know people at Ft. Lewis, Western and Mesa State, perhaps we can have you present a guest lecture to the students and faculty to address their “third & fourth” tier status. Would you accept the invitation?
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 7:28 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. Laitres,
I have agreed with your opinions many times, and your erudite approach has been most interesting. However, is the sole purpose of a dissertation to contribute to one’s field? Is not a dissertation a capstone project that serves to demonstrate a masters/doctoral candidate to prove his/her research, writing and scholarly capabilities? Does this process not make the candidate improve their writing and reasoning skills?
You speak of the deterioration of the entire American educational system, but does that not reflect the deterioration of the American society in general? Could not your conversations with an MSC and CSU graduate be transferred to most colleges/university graduates in America? [of course not CU or Harvard, Sugarfoot :)]
Then your final statement is a dig at Mesa State, yet colleges/universities across America spend funding on sports facilities. Have you taken a tour lately of MSC? You may have not noticed that the newest facility is Grand Mesa Hall, a new residence hall for students (who chose a third or fourth tier institution [Sugarfoot]) Or perhaps you have not noticed that the building currently being constructed is a new classroom building. Perhaps you do not know that new funding recently acquired is a renovation/addition to Saunders Fieldhouse in which new facilities will be built for the Nursing and Kinesiology Departments. Did you you forget the $500,000 donation from the Monfort Foundation for a new Human Performance and Wellness Lab? (one of only three in Colorado) Is that for learning or just sports? And plans are underway for renovations to the library, but I doubt the third and fourth tier students will frequent that, right Sugarfoot?
I suggest if you think the educational system is deteriorating, you get in the schools to offer assistance as a tutor/mentor/teacher aide. That would hold true for everyone on this board who sits back and complains about the educational system. Get involved and make a difference, or stop complaining, (or send your children/grandchildren to a private school or home-school)
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 8:23 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Orpheus-I came to Grand Junction after a successful business career for the same reason many people opt to live here-the year-round outdoor lifestyle.
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 10:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sugarfoot, Business? Great! We could set up a lecture to the third and fourth tier students who are bringing home national awards from the Phi Beta Lamda Leadership Conference as well as other national marketing award. Then you could become a positive member of the community instead of tearing down an institution that is attracting top students from around the state and region. Perhaps CU isn’t a fit for everyone.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 6:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Orpheus-your suggestion has some merit except I doubt Mesa State President Tim Foster would allow me to speak. There is some history there.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 8:31 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sugarfoot - Hmm…was that the impetus for your dig at Mesa State, but you included Ft. Lewis and Western State to cover it up?
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 9:31 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Orpheus-My political disagreement(s) with Tim Foster have nothing to do with my assessment of Mesa State. All one has to do is to look at the entrance requirements of MSC versus schools such as CU, CSU, Mines, DU, Northern Colorado and others to see it is at least a third tier institution. However, I will give MSC credit for establishing at least some entrance requirements. Until a few years ago, all a prospective student needed for admittance to MSC was a high school diploma (or GED)and a tuition check that would clear at the bank. I characterize MSC (as well as, but to a somewhat less degree, Western State College and Ft. Lewis College) as a “feeder” school. This is a place where mediocre and poor students can go to try and develop the skills necessary to get into a “real” college or university; or where students who can’t make it at a major university can come to finish out their college years and obtain at least some kind of degree.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 10:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
” Sugarfoot
Posted May 18th, 2008 at 6:41 am PM This User Report this comment
Orpheus - I have two (2) Bachelor of Arts degrees from the University of Colorado-Boulder, and a Master of Arts degree from Harvard University. Those degrees and $3.75 get me a medium Chai latte at Trader Joe’s Coffee Shop, the meeting place for anyone of importance in Grand Junction. ”
OK Everybody pay attention!
If you don’t go to ‘Trader Joe’s ‘ then yer all jes stoopid and of no impartance in the great scheme of things.
snugglefoot sayed sew.
His statement puts everybody on notice that Trader Joe’s Coffee Shop is just a liberal infested, intellectual sinkhole, full of vapid non thinking folks that are so much better than anybody else in the valley.
That helps explain the mentally drained feeling I got the one time went in.
Thank God I left quick.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 10:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sugarfoot - my child willingly chose to stay in GJ in order to attend the MSC Music Education program even though she had offers from several Ivy League level schools. She is in the top portion of her class and is by no means a “mediocre or poor” student. You are a bit behind the times if you think MSC is still the “feeder” school of a decade ago. They have many excellent programs available to young men and women.
By the way, part of what went into her decision to stay here is that her education will be in the hands of her professors, not their grad students. Another is because she intends to teach here in Mesa County School District and her chances are greater to receive a job offer if she attends MSC. After all, students in college do have that aim in mind… a job offer when they are finished.
CU was (and still is) her second choice. She may choose to move there at a later date, but the fact that they place many of their interns in Denver schools has put her off.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 10:54 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey WLC, I like Trader Joe’s coffee and I am, by no means, remotely close to liberal minded
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 11:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sorry, make that WLJ, not WLC
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 11:04 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sue-your point is sell taken, however, the key concept in your statement is “she intends to teach here in Mesa County School and her chances are greater to receive a job offer is she attends MSC.” The actual question is whether she would get a teaching job with a school district in the “real” world beyond Mesa County (or Western Colorado) with a MSC degree if she were competing with someone with a comparable degree from CU, CSU, DU, or Northern Colorado. I submit that her having a degree from MSU versus those institutions I just mentioned would put you as a distinct disadvantage.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 11:08 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sue-sorry for the typos at the end of my last message. The last sentence should read: “I submit that her having a degree from MSU versus those institutions I just mentioned would put her at a distinct disadvantage.”
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 11:10 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sue-sorry again - MSU is obviously MSC. Mesa State has a very long way to go before it could meet the requirements to become an actual university.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 11:13 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sue, no offense taken.:)
But, quite obviously, in the eyes of one user, your daughter isn’t capable of setting her sights any higher than some mediocre squalor position in some podunk village on the edge of nowhere.
Personally, I think Mesa State is a very good school.
(read - no ward churchills on staff)
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 11:17 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
snugarfoot, you need to talk to Rexall about all your ‘typos’.
And, apparently, apologize to all the normal residents of the entire Western Slope of Colorado.
“The actual question is whether she would get a teaching job with a school district in the “real” world beyond Mesa County (or Western Colorado).
If you dislike our “fantasy world”, remember, you came here, we didn’t go to you.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 12:21 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sugarfoot, Grand Junction is the “real” world for those of us who claim it as home. I am a transplant, but I call it home and I intend to stay until I die here. I’ve lived in many different places, large and small and quite frankly, I’d choose my “real” world here over a larger city any day.
My daughter wants to teach here in our “real” world. If at some point she chooses to go to a different city, her degree (from wherever), her intelligence, her grades and most importantly, her motivation will get her there. She’ll succeed in part because I’ve taught her that if she expects success, she’ll have to work toward that goal… it will not be handed to her simply because of ink written on a college or university’s paper. I know that I am minimalizing your point, but my point is that the name on the degree is only part of the equation in determining success or failure.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 12:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sue-I can generally agree with elements of your position regarding motivation and intelligence, but would add that the more rigorous the training, the better the chance of success (the other elements notwithstanding). I would question whether the rigors of academic training at Mesa State (for all students) is at the same level as at a number of other schools in the state. The direction in which the management of MSC is taking the school is exemplified by where they are allocating the bulk of capital expenditures. They are spending much more on athletics than academics. They want “jocks” not “scholars.” I sincerely wish your daughter the best of luck - she’s going to need it.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey Sugarfoot, you seem to be out of touch with the philosophy of a Division II college. They are not called “jocks” they are called student-athletes. They are students first, and that philosophy is adhered to at Mesa State. Refer to my message to RLaitres where I pointed out the millions of dollars that are going towards better facilities in which teaching and learning takes place. Then compare that to the new sports facilities, and you will come out with a small percentage of funds that have been allocated to improving the sports facilities when compared to academic facilities. Take for example the new soccer stadium. If you will notice this place is a hub of activity for student-athletes of all ages, from age 4 - 44. Not a bad partership with the community if I do say so.
You speak of entrance requirements, but you fail to recognize the mission of Mesa State and the other small schools, which is to be a regional education provider. MSC’s mission is not to be a CU, so why do you keep comparing them? At CU, a great deal of emphasis is placed on research. At MSC and other small schools, the highest emphasis is placed on teaching. Yet small schools continue to attract top students. Why is that? Perhaps there are top tier students who don’t want to be on a campus of 40,000+ students. Perhaps they prefer to be in a small school taking classes from professors who care about them. It has to be a right fit. CU does not fit everyone, nor does Harvard.
And regarding your comments to Sue, you are EXTREMELY out of touch with the success MSC education majors (from all fields) have had when compared to teachers from other institutions. There are teachers from all institutions out there doing a great job, and like any profession, there are teachers out there doing a not-so-great job. This holds true for lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc., etc., regardless from where they received their diploma. One final thought regarding the “rigors of traning”. Let’s take a general education curriculum for example: At a large university class size is what? 200? 300? 400?. At a small school class size is: 40? 50? 60? At a large university these courses are generally taught by a graduate assistant. At a small school these classes are taught by professors. How does one have “rigors of traning” in a large class? Perhaps you are talking about the upper division studies? How many in an upper division class in a large university? 40? 50? 60? when compared to a small school 10? 15? 20? Again, is about the right fit.
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Thank you, orpheus, for explaining the point I tried to make so well… I appreciate the additional help
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 2:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sue, be proud of her no matter where she attends school, I’m willing to bet dimes to doughnuts that she has better social skills than sugarsocks could ever have. I really dont see what some people think is wrong with MSC, is it because there isnt ivy growing on the gargoyles?
Posted May 19th, 2008 at 3:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Jen, I am very proud of her and the choices she has made. She will be a wonderful teacher because she wants to share her love of music and has a passion for it. And I have no problem with the fact she chose a small school with no ivy in sight… even though she was solicited by many of them
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