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Maybe the deer and elk in Mesa County Commissioner Craig Meis’ mind like to hang out at natural-gas pads — like the fanciful creatures in “Alice in Wonderland” — but those in the wild, the real animals that live in the real world do not.
The fact is that when gas pads (vast tracks of lifeless, sometimes contaminated, mini dustbowls) encroach upon and proliferate across traditional fawning/calving and foraging grounds, the deer and elk have no choice but to be in close proximity.
Once that happens, the herds have two choices: Learn to cope with the disruption and loss of habitat, or don’t go anywhere near the pads and wander off either adjusting to whatever habitat is left or simply dying off from attrition and aborted calves. Guess which option is selected most easily and therefore often? Number 2.
And as for reclamation, when it is done at all, it is typically years after production wanes and it is often unsuccessful — yielding invasive non-nutritive species. Ask the COGCC how many times they’ve been left holding the bag after big profits dry up and operators move on in the night? By the time successful reclamation finally takes place, assuming that it will, will there even be any herds left to consider?
Speaking of “Wonderland,” doesn’t Mr. Meis own Cordilleran Compliance Services, Inc.? And don’t they do a lot of the testing of polluted waterways for the oil and gas industry? It seems like Mr. Meis stands to make a lot of money from pollution, if pollution is allowed to continue. And not only is that a conflict of interest, but the kind of comments he’s making about wildlife draws into question not only his own credibility, but that of his employees and the industry folk who hire him to report findings to the COGCC.
Wildlife liking natural gas well pads? That’s rather like an unbirthday isn’t it? Oh, it’s a topsy-turvy world, Hatter … yes, yes it certainly is.
LISA BRACKEN
Silt
55 Responses to “Wildlife are forced to cope with drill pads”
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 10:39 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Interesting.
Lisa thinks that wildlife actually ‘cares’.
30 days after completion and the well is online, the wildlife are back like nothing ever happened.
But, not in her “Alice in Wonderland” scenario.
The animals move away forever and die in some far distant land.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 11:25 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Here’s an idea. Instead of all the, does not, does too, theoretical arm chair conclusions, why not find out for yourselves. Within an easy one hour drive from Grand Junction is a major wintering ground for deer and elk. This area is under extensive current drilling, and is dotted with established gas and oil wells. There is over 40 years of energy production represented in this area. It is located North of the Interstate (70), East of the Cisco exit, all the way to the Colorado/Utah state line. The northern boundary would be the Bookcliffs. Four-wheel drive is recommended. This is the winter feeding grounds of countless deer, and used extensively by a herd of between 150 and 175 Elk. Beginning in late October through mid February, dependent upon weather, you will find these herds present, as well as antelope, coyote, bobcat and an assortment of other wildlife. Be sure to take your camera. There will be lots of opportunities to photograph deer and elk browsing on and around existing wells and drilling operations. Binoculars are recommended. They will allow you to stop about a quarter mile away from the wells, and view the animals. Here’s a hot tip for those of you who don’t believe that energy production and wildlife can co-exist. Limit you vision to within one hundred yards of your vehicle, crank up your car stereo. put a rap CD in, slam your car doors, and drive at high speed. Following these instructions will allow you to report you didn’t see a single animal. But if it is the truth you are after, why not do it right. You may be as amazed as I was to find elk lying within fifty yards of the interstate and a working drill rig, near the rest stop just before the Westwater exit. Just watching the traffic go by, chewing their cud. This particular group numbered seventeen, and included a four point bull, a spike bull and fifteen cows and calves. I took photos.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
.
Interesting.
30 days after completion, the well pad is still bare compacted sub-soil with a slowly evaporating pit and, according to recommendations, should be fenced off from wildlife and livestock until the revegetation is complete.
If there are wildlife and forage plants on the pads, then either it is more than 30 days after completion or the well operator is too cheap to put up a fence.
WLJ, maybe you should document your observations with photos and dates and the API number of the well and report it. You are either observing miracles or, well, you don’t know what you are talking about.
Hmmm. Interesting.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis or ameri-pat, can you credibly speak about the ecosystems and drilling impacts at ANWR (wrongly called the Alaska Nat’l Wildlife Refuge in the sappy Daily Sentinel editorial – it’s ARCTIC)? Have you spent some time there? Four seasons of the year? Observing the patterns of migratory birds, fish and mammals? Digesting the intricacies of life in the arctic? Pondering the brown/yellow cloud & pall that hangs brightly over the oil facilities and industrial zone around Deadhorse?
Spent some time, have you, with the good native folks in Kaktovik or Arctic Village, and solicited their thoughts on why caribou populations in neighboring Northwest Territories & Yukon have dropped by between 40 and 86 percent over the last 10 years?
Is ANWR a real word, an abstraction, or just a sound for you? Or is it just symbolic, part of the “drill it all, drill it now” mentality? Or is it only a symptom of a hugely addicted and very desperate country with no forward-thinking energy policy?
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Interesting.
I never said the wildlife was grazing.
Perhaps bruce86, you should take a remedial reading and comprehension course before you continue to make yourself look like an uneducated dolt.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ,
Where did I say “the wildlife [were] grazing?”
Maybe if you spent less time calling people names you would improve your reading comprehension?
Just an idea.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hmmm. Interesting.
If there was any significant wildlife prior to drilling, (some places there is not), then it is still there after drilling!
Some of us spend more time in the great outdoors than in front of a computer and we know this to be true from acute observations.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
” Bruce86
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:44 pm PM This User Report this comment
WLJ,
Where did I say “the wildlife [were] grazing?”
Maybe if you spent less time calling people names you would improve your reading comprehension?
Just an idea. ”
Awwww, bruce, in post#4, you stated:
” Bruce86
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:27 pm PM This User Report this comment
.
Interesting.
30 days after completion, the well pad is still bare compacted sub-soil with a slowly evaporating pit and, according to recommendations, should be fenced off from wildlife and livestock until the revegetation is complete.
If there are wildlife and forage plants on the pads, then either it is more than 30 days after completion or the well operator is too cheap to put up a fence.
WLJ, maybe you should document your observations with photos and dates and the API number of the well and report it. You are either observing miracles or, well, you don’t know what you are talking about.
Hmmm. Interesting. ”
That is where you made the assumption that you had something of value to add to the conversation.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
willis seems to particularly needy today…must have forgotten his meds.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:07 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“toaaronuu
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:01 pm PM This User Report this comment
willis seems to particularly needy today…must have forgotten his meds.”
Typical of this poster.
Nothing of value to add to the conversation.
Just childish sniping from the sidelines.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
As if willis has ever added anything of value to the conversation.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Gentlemen, grab your penises! Let the pissing contest begin! I see the pace car, and there is the green flag! THE CROWD GOES WILD, with laughter!
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:30 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ,
I still do not see anywhere where I said anything about grazing.
You are the one who made the assumption that because ‘wildlife’ and ‘plants’ appeared in the same sentence that the wildlife were grazing on those plants.
Still, this was a heroic attempt on your part to recover from your own mistake. Bummer that you failed again. However, you were successful in getting in yet another insult. I guess everyone contributes something. You contribute insults.
None of this changes the fact that you were wrong in post #1 when you wrote: “the wildlife are back like nothing ever happened.”
You have no data to support this. Thus, there is no reason for anyone of us to think it might be true.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sorry, Jen, but the news is grim:
“BBC correspondents say that mobs have attacked individuals accused of using magic to steal men’s penises.
The belief that men’s private parts can mysteriously disappear through a handshake or an incantation is commonplace in Benin, Africa where superstition and illiteracy are rife.
The authorities in Benin have ordered security forces to curb violence in the commercial capital, Cotonou, following the deaths of five people by vigilantes. Four of those who died were burned, another man was hacked to death.”
Could it happen here? Here in this place that is rife with superstation and illiteracy?
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bruce86: (quoting WLJ) “None of this changes the fact that you were wrong in post #1 when you wrote: “the wildlife are back like nothing ever happened.”
“You have no data to support this. Thus, there is no reason for anyone of us to think it might be true.”
Indeed all the data show just the opposite see for example: http://corrosion-doctors.org/Pollution/oil-pipes-example-2.htm
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 4:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh gene, that is so good.
A pipeline spill in Alaska killed off all the wildlife in Western Colorado.
And your ’source’?
‘corrosion-doctors’?
I think your mind may have a little corrosion around the edges.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 4:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bruce86 wrote: WLJ, maybe you should document your observations with photos and dates and the API number of the well and report it. You are either observing miracles or, well, you don’t know what you are talking about.
Just curious Bruce, you seem to be well versed in the oil and gas industry, where would one find the API number on a well? I wasn’t aware that the American Petroleum Institute had anything to do with numbering wells. Fill me in.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 5:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Dear Bruce.
I said:
” Willis_Leon_Johnson
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 10:39 am PM This User Report this comment
Interesting.
Lisa thinks that wildlife actually ‘cares’.
30 days after completion and the well is online, the wildlife are back like nothing ever happened. ‘
You responded with:
” Bruce86
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 12:27 pm PM This User Report this comment
.
Interesting.
30 days after completion, the well pad is still bare compacted sub-soil with a slowly evaporating pit and, according to recommendations, should be fenced off from wildlife and livestock until the revegetation is complete.
If there are wildlife and forage plants on the pads, then either it is more than 30 days after completion or the well operator is too cheap to put up a fence.
WLJ, maybe you should document your observations with photos and dates and the API number of the well and report it. You are either observing miracles or, well, you don’t know what you are talking about.
Hmmm. Interesting. ”
I put the wildlife back into the vicinity.
YOU placed them on the well site with forage.
Post#13 ” Bruce86
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 1:30 pm PM This User Report this comment
WLJ,
I still do not see anywhere where I said anything about grazing.
You are the one who made the assumption that because ‘wildlife’ and ‘plants’ appeared in the same sentence that the wildlife were grazing on those plants.
Still, this was a heroic attempt on your part to recover from your own mistake. Bummer that you failed again. However, you were successful in getting in yet another insult. I guess everyone contributes something. You contribute insults.”
In other words, the wildlife was just standing around wondering who planred…
(from another thread)
” Wildlife do care what plants are available for forage. Weeds such as knapweed, halogeton, cheatgrass, annual wheatgrass, pepperweed, and others are not the preferred species. Wildlife does care about the quality of their food. Poor quality is generally eaten only when there is not sufficient high quality food available. Poor quality food impacts birth weights, weight gain, over winter survival, etc. Animals that don’t care (that is, choose poor forage) die young. ”
I am sure that there are numerous agencies that would like some details on this subject.
Are you claiming that some reclamation companies are trying to kill off the wildlife?
Or is it more of your self inflated ego trying to look important?
IF we are going to deal in FACTS, then present FACTS, and not a bunch of reprehensible, scare mongering, political hyperbole.
It lessens your argument and lowers others impression of you.
Do you still believe that it is hotter when it’s cloudy than it is when the sun is shining?
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 6:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I believe that the Colorado Division of Wildlife would be a credible source of information on what is happening and what is planned for the future. The following is cut and pasted from the DOW website.
Wildlife Researchers Turn Attention to Energy Development in Piceance Basin
Colorado Division of Wildlife (DOW) researchers are working with the energy industry and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) to study ways to reduce and mitigate the impacts that thousands of gas wells may have in the Piceance Basin. Energy experts say the basin is one of the largest natural gas reserves in North America. Biologists, conservationists, and sportsmen value the Piceance Basin for its incredible diversity and abundance of wildlife.
The Piceance Basin is home to one of the largest migratory mule deer herds in the nation. It winters thousands of elk. The basin is also home to a high-elevation population of greater sage-grouse, Colorado River cutthroat trout, and numerous other species, both rare and common.
The DOW’s Central Piceance Basin Project brings together a strong team of researchers that will implement a comprehensive, multi-species, landscape-based approach to understanding the success of existing mitigation efforts and helping to craft new mitigation strategies.
Three natural gas industry leaders - EnCana, Shell and Williams - have committed to assist with the project. In addition to pledging significant financial support, the companies have agreed to allow researchers to access thousands of acres of land the companies own in the research area. The project has also received financial support from the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, the Colorado Mule Deer Association, and the National Mule Deer Foundation. BLM is requesting money through their budget process to support this project.
End of article.
So it appears that not only are the major oil and gas players not dragging their feet, they are allowing studies to be done on large acreages that are fee (surface owned and the minerals either owned outright or leased by the O & G company) land as well as funding a large part of the studies. From all the entities involved it appears that there is excellent cooperation between them.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 8:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
The industry companies are doing these studies because they have little choice. The tide of public sentiment has turned against them and they know that they will be forced by the state and county governments to do something about the damage they have been doing to wildlife habitat.
If they volunteer they get PR credit for doing the right thing. If they don’t, they will have to comply anyway.
You can find APD ( not API ) numbers at the COGCC website. Some few industry companies do a passable job on pads that are in highly visible areas. The most recent, and perhaps only, study by the COGCC on reclamation compliance found that, after two years, only 20% of well pads in Garfield county were adequately reclaimed. Add to this the presence of hundreds of waste pits filled with toxic chemicals and hundreds more condensate tanks that have EPA permits to belch toxic vapors and you have a very unfriendly environment. The deer and elk don’t have anywhere else to go, so they stick around, do the best they can, and die off slowly.
WLJ and american patriot and their friends add nothing to the discussion because they HAVE nothing to add except anecdotal disclaimers and the dissection of other posts for the purpose of sniping. Nothing new here.
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 11:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
‘
gfbyers & dc,
Actually, the COGCC assigns API (yes, that’s an ‘I’) numbers to all gas wells. Sometimes these are included in the signage at the well site. Other times you will need to use the quarter-quarter section location and operator name on the sign to track down the API number from the COGCC database. The API number is a unique identifier for a well regardless of operator and regardless of whether the well is on private, state, federal or tribal lands.
Other topics:
The industry interest in the DOW research is simultaneously sincere and self-serving, as pointed out by dc in post #20.
In addition to the COGCC reclamation study that dc mentioned, Williams Production commissioned Colorado State University researchers to perform a similar study just a few years ago. I haven’t had a chance to read the entire study, however I attended a presentation summarizing it by one of the researchers. Basically, reclamation success has been uniformly poor. Here’s the report on the COGCC website: http://oil-gas.state.co.us/RuleMaking/AddRegsHandouts.cfm
Also on the COGCC website are the DOW staff rulemaking statements in support of new wildlife rules. Much scientific research is summarized and cited in these comments to document just what is known about the impacts of gas development on wildlife. If you are interested, use this link: http://oil-gas.state.co.us/RuleMaking/StaffPreHearState/StaffPreHearState.cfm
The 8 DOW staff statements can be found in the middle of the table on this page.
(WLJ, as to whether it is hotter with clouds, if you go back to my posts on this topic you will find this was all in regards to NIGHT temperatures. In other words, when the sun is on the other side of the planet. Nice attempt (although, failed again) at attacking statements that exist only in your mind. I appreciate your concern, albeit misplaced and incredibly ironic, about how others might perceive me. Thanks.)
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 6:58 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Thanks for the info Bruce86. I stand corrected.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 7:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ahhh, now I understand.
All the wildlife in Western Colorado has died off due to the fact that drilling has gone on, nearly uninterrupted, for well over 75 years.
All the out of state hunters show up every year to shoot ghosts.
Vehicles get crumpled fenders from gossamer tendrils of mist.
The local packing plants cut wisps of vapor into steaks and roasts.
(no bruce, I specifically pointed out sunlit hours. Sunlight is not reflected by the cloud cover at night.)
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 7:26 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc said in post #20: Add to this the presence of hundreds of waste pits filled with toxic chemicals…
just for informative purposes, the majority of ingredients for drilling mud is:
water
barite (natural mineral)
bentonite (another natural mineral)
sawdust
walnut shell
wood shavings
soda ash
sodium bicarbonate
please note that this is for water-based mud, not oil-based, and it is an incomplete list at best….my point is that the majority (85-95%) of ingredients in mud is natural and in no way toxic…now, back to your regularly scheduled flaming
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 9:36 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
hitekredneck,
You know as well as I that drilling mud is not the only thing in those reserve pits. Condensate is extremely toxic and it floats on practically every pit I have ever seen. The old timers call this stuff ” casing head gas ” and claim that you can mix in a little oil and run your car on it. In addition, the kind of exotic brew that some companies use for hydraulic fracturing winds up in many pits and contains biocides ( kills all life ), acids or powerful alklyds, surfactants (soaps so powerful they can wash off your skin)and anything else these guys can come up with that will get anopther few cubic feet of gas out of the ground. Many of the wells in this area also produce a little crude oil that winds up in the pits. Go wash your face in that crap and see how you feel a few minutes later.
I worked in the patch on many wells and I have many family and friends who still do. The oil and gas operation is filled with nasty toxic stuff of all kinds but the industry is trying like crazy to deny it. As long as it is the industry mandate to lie and misinform on this subject, the workers and the wildlife are at risk… not to mention our emergency response personnel.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 9:44 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ: “All the wildlife in Western Colorado has died off due to the fact that drilling has gone on, nearly uninterrupted, for well over 75 years.
All the out of state hunters show up every year to shoot ghosts.
Vehicles get crumpled fenders from gossamer tendrils of mist.
The local packing plants cut wisps of vapor into steaks and roasts.”
Bruce cites scientific studies with references so that the entire study can be read by anyone who wishes. DC gives us the benefit of his experience working in the industry. WLJ comes back with this crap. Guess who appears more credible!
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 10:07 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
” Guess who appears more credible! ”
uh, gene?
That would be me.
According to all the hyperbole and scare mongering going on, one would be led to thinking everything is dying off in droves.
However, reasonably intelligent people will notice that there really are lots of Deer and Elk out in them thar hills.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 2:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’d like to thank the folks that responded to my original letter. I’m glad that at least some people are interested in the topic - because it sure is an importnat one. I read each and every post and believe, regardless of the differences of opinion (and discounting some of the petty sniping) that every comment comes from a genuine place that is truly felt. I can appreciate that. I really appreciate the resouces some folks shared with others - those are useful to me too. For anyone wondering, though, my agenda is as an individual trying to survive this industry. That’s it. I’m a registered Independent and consider myself half mountain tree-hugger and half southern —-kicker. I live with wildlife and have been blessed to do so for over twenty years. I’m a heck of a lot happier tooling around in the boonies than I am perched in front of a computer, but these things are useful sometimes. Somebody in a post mentioned the big gas companies coperating and doing studies on wildlife. Well, I can ytell you that I watched a herd of cow elk this winter watching from the cedars across the road from a place they normally access to calve - but which was undergoing development from a rig. No one was around to see any of this but little ol’ me. Despite letters to EnCana and DOW, development went forward and the elk stood by watching - not hanging out onthe pads sniffing up the fumes and feeling no pain. When companies commission studies you’d better be ready with a audit of the facts. It’s been my experience that those studies have a way of being cancelled by funders. And the data that does emerge? Well, that’s a little like the fox verifying to the farmer that “yep - twenty-eight chickens still alive and well just inside the hen house… no need to check it out… y’all just go on back to bed.”
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 2:16 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well said, Lisa.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 2:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Was that during hunting season?
Where do you live?
Is it on your property?
May I please hunt there?
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 2:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc, i hope you didn’t misinterpret the intent of that post…i only wanted to share that there ARE natural ingredients in drilling mud, and with research, we could possibly expand that list…condensate is now collected in tanks for removal by vac trucks, btw….very little condensate actually gets left behind….
lisa, i respect what you’re saying…but in todays economy, we simply have to keep drilling in order to keep the wolves at bay until we come up with better alternatives…i appreciate what you’ve witnessed, and can tell you that i’ve seen elk calving within sight of a rig, and it sounds like it was more a matter of timing than anything else…please note that i’m not defending the exploration and development impacts on the wildlife…i think there’s always more we/they can do to improve the situation, but i do not think it’s as dire as people are claiming….that, of course is my own opinion, and you know what they say about opinions….they’re like anal cavities…everybody has one and most of em stink
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 3:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc
Posted May 28th, 2008 at 8:39 pm PM This User Report this comment
“The industry companies are doing these studies because they have little choice. The tide of public sentiment has turned against them and they know that they will be forced by the state and county governments to do something about the damage they have been doing to wildlife habitat.
If they volunteer they get PR credit for doing the right thing. If they don’t, they will have to comply anyway.”
Does it matter what the reason’s are? The main thing is, as I posted, the various agencies are working together to solve the problems.
And I thought that since the COGCC seemed to figure prominately in the last couple of posts that the following, which was taken from their website, would be of some value on this particular thread:
HOW ARE OIL AND GAS IMPACTS TO WILDLIFE AND AGRICULTURAL LANDS ADDRESSED?
Oil and gas development generally affects relatively small areas averaging roughly 2 acres per well. Therefore, impacts to wildlife habitat and agricultural lands are generally relatively small. The COGCC has reclamation rules that require impacted lands to be restored to their original condition after the well is abandoned. Those rules have recently been expanded and strengthened.
Compared to other forms of land use, such as rural residential development, oil and gas development is relatively benign in its impact on wildlife and agriculture. It is temporary in that after the well is abandoned the lands can be reclaimed for wildlife habitat and agriculture. Rural residential development is generally more permanent. Wildlife biologists from the Colorado Division of Wildlife (CDOW) have advised that there are generally more impacts to wildlife from a typical rural residence than from a typical oil and gas well. State law in Colorado restricts regulation of rural residential land development to parcels smaller than 35 acres. The CDOW wildlife biologists have confirmed that gas wells developed at one well per 40 acres typically have less impact on wildlife than 35 acre ranchette development does. The COGCC considers impacts to wildlife in its regulation, and in certain cases issues orders or applies permit conditions to prevent or mitigate impacts to wildlife.
The National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) provides for a defined “cumulative impacts” analysis for proposed projects classified as “federal actions”. Colorado law does not provide for a NEPA “cumulative impacts” analysis for projects proposed on private or state-owned lands. The COGCC can consider cumulative impacts within the limits of its authority under state law.
A wildlife policy has been adopted by the oil and gas industry trade associations and many companies operating in Colorado. The CDOW and the COGCC encourage voluntary commitment to measures that prevent and mitigate impacts to wildlife.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 4:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
All of that is fine and dandy GFB, but it does not alter the truth that oil and gas development have a negative impact on wildlife (at least in every study I have read). I take your point that residential development has an even greater negative impact on wildlife. Does that mean I wish to see oil and gas development stopped everywhere? No, like most of us concerned with the environment who wish to leave some unspoiled land for our grandchildren, I recognize there are tradeoffs. I merely wish to see that the development is done responsibly in order to mitigate the damaging effect on wildlife.
My primary comments on this forum are simply attempts to counter claims by certain Pollyannish individuals that wildlife is unaffected in any way by oil and gas development, indeed that the pads are beneficial! This flies in the face of reason and the evidence.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I told ya class, all the wildlife died off and there’s just nuthin’ left.
I learned it all from your studies and surveys, and fear mongering, and playing with data.
But, on the other hand, if the wildlife is still out there, then maybe the wildlife hasn’t gotten around to checking out your studies yet, so maybe they didn’t know they were supposed to die if they saw anything human in the neighborhood.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ: “I learned it all from your studies and surveys”
They are not my studies. I read several and quoted some.
The fact that there are still elk and deer out there does not negate that they have been harmed by oil and gas development and their numbers reduced.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 6:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey all - read some more posts. Glad to see folks talking about this stuff.
I’m getting ready to send some comments in to COGCC regarding the new rules, so thanks for putting up more stuff for me to reference. There’s only a few posts up on the state’s website, but a conversation with someone in the office today indicated there are bunches more comments to put online. In fact, the deadline for submitting comments was extended to June 6th for anyone still wanting to toss in their two cents.
Here’s the thing about drilling. I have nothing against industry, but I am big-time anti-stupidity. the positions I take on issues are based on three things: 1) what I think is right and wrong; 2) what makes sense - common sense; and 3) what I believe is fair.
I don’t care which side of the fence I need to stand on. I choose a position based on those criteria, and that’s it. If solar energy put me on the opposite side of the solar fence I’d be happy to stand there; but the reason I feel the way I do about the oil and gas industry is because, based on my judgement which comes from my set of criteria, they’ve put me on the side of the fence opposite their interests. Now, if this industry wants to modify the way they do business, I’ll re-examine the facts. But right now, I think they are mostly wrong, unfair and opperating counter to common sense.
I’d, frankly, like to see them change things because I thing they can have a part to play in our economy and I think paychecks for families is all good - as long as it’s not blood money.
The truth is that wildlife need our help right now, and from what I’ve seen of most of these posts, y’all don’t have a clue what’s really going on. I could tell you lots of stuff - the truth, becuase I don’t have an agenda and I don’t believe in B.S. (I don’t like hearing it myself). But, I would need a bunch of pages. It really is bad folks. On the ground, where all this crap is happening - it really is bad. That’s why I’m against how things are being handled. Like that 2 acres the state mentioned? Give me a break! When we talked to an operator about a lease on our place they demanded 7 acres - 5 bare minimum, which didn’t account for access raods or pipelines. That’s the kind of differnce you find in the information out there. If you want the truth just keep looking and you’ll uncover it sooner or later.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 8:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Thanks Lisa.
I would like to add to this discussion (and apologize if it’s already been said) that wildlife encompasses a heck of a lot more than just deer and elk.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 9:52 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Lisa kind of goes on a rant and wants to have a boogy-man. She also is somewhat ignorant and does not realize that the reclamation takes place while wells are in production, not after they are done. If she had talked about the impact of massive road development in previously “wild” areas she would have been able to make a point.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 9:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
If you think I want a boogy-man you are sadly sadly mistaken. Rant - yeah - I’ll grant you that. Ignorant? Live here and tell me that.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 10:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
ashhugger, it’s all scare tactics, and whining for attention.
Yes, the wildlife is somewhat disturbed for a short period of time, but ater the wells are completed, the noise and smell are gone, the grass and other forage on the sides of the locations are long and lush and make good grazing.
As to the smaller forms of wildlife…
When the mill tailings cleanup was a big scare factor in the valley because of radiation, they never did find any deformed, mutated mice any place in the valley.
But, the federal money was flowing to the working Americans instead of lazy slobs that work the system and live off other peoples money.
Posted May 29th, 2008 at 10:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Lisa, you see what you choose to see.
I can sit on your porch alongside you, drink the same drinks, and watch the same scenes that you watch, and we will come away with different opinions.
Now, about the possibility of hunting in your area…
Posted May 30th, 2008 at 6:22 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I too live among the critters and from where I sit I think the gas companies are doing a good job and the wildlife does not care. My observations are they stay there distance while the moving in and moving out of equipment happens but after it is over they are back just like before.
Posted May 31st, 2008 at 12:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I don’t observe elk from my car or from my porch with a drink in my hand. I live with them. I walk among them. I observe and pay close attention to what they reveal to me. And if I carry anything, it’s a camera.
The thing that folks don’t usually realize is that stress causes those animals to wander away from environmental disruptions. And stress also causes high-strung animals like elk to abort which increases mortality. Granted, deer seem to have a litle higher threshold for disruptions, but they too suffer. And I’ve seen first-hand catastophic consequences of their near associations with human activity.
DOW attempted a study some time ago in conjunction with Williams to study the elk - but they couldn’t even find any elk to study.
When these animals go away, sometimes they don’t come back. If you don’t observe the patterns over time, you wouldn’t even notice them missing. There is severe disruption to herds South of Silt and I will work dilegently to advocate for their silent voices.
Posted June 1st, 2008 at 2:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
HOGWASH!! Environmental brain-washing hogwash!
There are so many elk in Colorado now the DOW is having a hard time trying to find ways to kill them.
There are more elk than tere has ever been. There are more elk in Colorado now than there was in the entire U S in the 1940’s.
Since there are more drill rigs and drilling in Colorado now than there has ever been and more off road vehicles now than there has ever been one MUST reach the conclusion that the combination of drilling and off road vehicles are responsible for the huge increase in the elk population.
Posted June 1st, 2008 at 2:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Quoting Rexall:
“Since there are more drill rigs and drilling in Colorado now than there has ever been and more off road vehicles now than there has ever been one MUST reach the conclusion that the combination of drilling and off road vehicles are responsible for the huge increase in the elk population.”
WOW. That kind of logic is mind numbing.
Posted June 1st, 2008 at 3:40 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Rexall: There are more elk than tere has ever been. There are more elk in Colorado now than there was(sic) in the entire U S in the 1940’s(sic).”
He picks the 1940s because this was an era before regulations were really enforced. We have all seen the huge mountains of game killed by hunters during that period. Deer and elk (and trout) in Colorado were hunted and fished almost to extinction by an increasing and unregulated population. Let’s compare the situation to say the 1880s. Most of the scientific studies compare the population before and after drilling activities. The data always show a decrease in elk and deer population. So what we have here is not environmental hogwash but rightwing NRA type hogwash.
Posted June 1st, 2008 at 8:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Wrong again 52! You really should stick to the topics that you have knowledge of. Public lands and wildlife are not among them.
I picked the 40’s because the Colorado DOW (that is Division of Wildlife for you 52), which some people here think is so great has made that claim. I actually think that the DOW is wrong at least half the time so who knows!!!
In your mind the data may always show a derease!
Oh I am not a NRA member either!
Posted June 1st, 2008 at 9:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Rexall: “Wrong again 52! You really should stick to the topics that you have knowledge of. Public lands and wildlife are not among them”
I made a film for the DOW which was shown for years (and may still be for all I know) at the Visitor Centers on the major highways coming into the state. As background for that film I studied in some detail the history of hunting and fishing in the state. Some of that material was incorporated in the film. And whether or not you used that motivation for your statement, the facts as I stated them about the low level of game due to unregulated overhunting in the 1940s are true. Indeed that is why the DOW people make such a point of it; they intend to show that with the proper regulations and constraint on hunting and fishing, wildlife will increase.
As for my not knowing anything about public lands and wildlife, I probably spend as much time as any poster on this forum on public lands. Last summer I spent two months camping in the wilderness of northern British Columbia on an extended fishing trip.
And the data show a decrease in the figures obtained in the research: plain for everyone to see.
Posted June 3rd, 2008 at 8:26 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
You must be so proud!!
I’ll bet your a legend in your own mind!
Posted June 3rd, 2008 at 8:34 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I don’t know Rexall.
Is it possible to be a legend in a vacuum?
2 months in BC?
Any chance of a repeat this year?
Posted June 3rd, 2008 at 9:06 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Rexall: “You must be so proud!!
I’ll bet your(sic) a legend in your own mind!
I am indeed proud of that film.
Posted June 3rd, 2008 at 6:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
What’s more asinine? Meis comments or his conflict of interest
On Craig Meis comments that drilling is good for wildlife
What planet does Craig Meis live on? We live in an area surrounded by
drilling, sludge pits, strong odors, ungodly noise, bright halogen
lights all which go 24/7 and I will tell you the wildlife DO NOT like
it. Meis comments bring into question not only his motives and sense
but also those he associates with. We have seen what happens to
wildlife and it’s sad; they become confused and totally stressed which
means they either adapt or die off. Well pads have taken over their
food supply, calving areas and migration routes, they have no choice but
be near some pad somewhere - the pads are everywhere. Saying bulldozing
every tree and blade of grass is good for wildlife; is the most
ridiculous thing from Meis’s mouth lately - wildlife needs habitat - not
bare dirt to survive. Seen a good aerial map of the total destruction
lately? It will make you sick. Check out week 28 on
journeyoftheforsaken.com to see pictures of how much deer like life along
the trucking routes. Meis seems to think bare toxic dirt is just what
Colorado needs. He seems to think we all like it - just like the wildlife.
Reclamation doesn’t exist; unless it’s maintained and irrigated, only
noxious weeds thrive, and there goes our once beautiful state for many
generations.
Craig Meis owns Cordilleran Services and profits from
industry (especially when they mess up) by doing water testing. Seems it
would greatly increase his income by helping industry: the more industry
pollutes, more income for him. Since he is a commissioner, makes his
living from industry, is against COGCC rules (that we all desperately
need to protect us) I would say this is a conflict of interest. He
should either work as a commissioner for the public good
or work for industry. He’s made it clear he cannot do both. The taxpayers
are paying his commissioner’s salary, but he must have forgotten that part.
No wait, he is making money from both of us — taxpayers and the energy
industry. Wow - conflict of interest big time.
Posted June 3rd, 2008 at 6:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
” EE
Posted June 3rd, 2008 at 6:00 pm PM This User Report this comment
What’s more asinine? Meis comments or his conflict of interest ”
The only answer to this one is;
The poster has the “Asinine Question of the Weeks” award.
Obviously this poster pops in and thinks that nobody else has posted any comments on the sunbect and spews forth with biased garbage with no connection to reality.
Posted June 3rd, 2008 at 7:23 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It is interesting to note the criticism of Mr. Meis. It is not that unusual in many seeking public office to find that they are unable to distinguish, or leave behind their mode of thinking from “self-service” to “public service.” In many such minds it is all the same, and comes from a really basic problem many suffer from. It is “What’s good for me HAS to be good for others.”
What is really interesting is that so many who appear on the editorial pages of local newspapers, or on some of these boards, and who support Mr. Meis, themselves have close “association” with the industry, or have close ties to those who do. The lack of depth for the reasons they give is also distinguishable by its shallowness. “I saw” or “I observed” around these drill pads….” While individual observations are important, when studying a broad problem or potential problem, it is necessary to have “many” such observations, for an extended period of time, and by impartial and trained individuals who are trained, and know what to look for. Those who restrict themselves to infrequent personal observations, then project what they saw in particular instances are not at all qualified to reach such conclusions.
They really place themselves in the same class, and at the same intellectual level as those who, for centuries and millenia believed that the earth was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth, and that we were the center of the universe.
Posted June 3rd, 2008 at 8:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
You know, that’s true - about public servants forgetting who they serve.
Right now, at least one candidate running for re-election in Garfield County is running on that very premise - that government needs to be given back to the people. Again and again industry has been favored over the interests of the public. The county already has so little to say about how industry operates in the county, that we really need someone to take into account the much bigger picture, balance the interests and think about the longevity and the economic sustainability of our region.
I say YUK to politics. It’s time regular people started looking out for regular people once again… if in fact, they ever did. The fact is that industry pollutes on a grand scale - though there are companies who do a much better job of stewardship than others.
These proposed regulations will help level the playing field and stop giving non-compliant fly-by-nighters the economic advantage over operators who try to do things right. Even if Meis can’t (or won’t) see the reasoning, the truth is that our broader economy, the folks that make a living from industry and our wildlife will only benefit from it.
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