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Excuse me, I believe that Bill Hugenberg and the athiests should get a life, as more people believe in the invocation then they do. The commissioners should believe in the people as most of us were the ones that voted them in.
I don’t care if it is city or county, this country was conceived on God. Those who don’t believe need to get over it. They should maybe come late if they don’t like the invocation. We should not have to alter our lives because of a few.
By the way, good job, Janet Rowland, for sticking up for our rights.
ROSE RICHARDSON
Grand Junction
The people want an invocation
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54 Responses to “The people want an invocation”
Posted August 5th, 2008 at 4:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Seems they already lead honest lives, Rose, and many of us are extremely thankful for their efforts. Perhaps it’s better that the Vocal Minority (that would be the god-fearing “People” you reference) keep themselves confined to their brick wardhouses and vinyl-sided cathedrals. And out of the halls of local government.
However, here’s hopin’ & prayin’ that Janet R. will speak in tongues when she freaks out at the next Commissioner’s meeting!!
Posted August 5th, 2008 at 5:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Rose: Excuse me, I believe that Bill Hugenberg and the athiests(sic) should get a life,”
Another one of those Mesa County intellectuals who cannot even spell correctly the name of the group she is attacking.
Posted August 5th, 2008 at 5:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I read letters like this and just wonder when our schools stopped teaching the fundamentals of American government.
Posted August 5th, 2008 at 8:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Rose, they are right. You definitely did not learn much from the 8th grade Civics class. If you think that it is all about the ‘majority rule’ you are sorely mistaken. The founders of this nation knew all about people like you and, wisely, insulated us all from the tyranny of the majority.
All Janet Rowland did on Monday morning was to let us know that The Gong (Gavel) show was currently playing in Mesa County.
BTW, I am at least you age (or Older) and have learned not only tolerance, but can recognize bigotry and hatred for what is really is.
Posted August 5th, 2008 at 9:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
CO52; Another one of those Mesa County intellectuals who cannot even spell correctly the name of the group she is attacking.
CO52 post from another thread; Gee, all the usual suspects like you, AP and WLJ seem to have been struck dumb by the horror of our conservative county commissioners selling out personal protery rights in favor of the Oil companies.
In your statement above, it should be “personal property rights”.
And another one; The Lincoln Douglas debates must have been something like that as well. Douglas was plenty smart but Lincoln exposed his lack of workable policies and induced him to utter sentiments which lost Doublas the support of the South.
Doublas???
You should check your own spelling on occasion before correcting others, ya think!!
Posted August 5th, 2008 at 9:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha: “In your statement above, it should be “personal property rights”.
I assume you know the difference between a typo and a misspelling. Do you really believe that I do not know how to spell “property”? I do not bother with the obvious typos of others and I assume no one will bother with mine. But when someone misspells the title which is at the very heart of the comment, then I assume it is out of ignorance.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 5:36 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
i before e except after what?!
Oh golly.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 7:17 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Rose’s education is lacking in the civics department, as well as grammar.
“this country was conceived on God”
Please go back to fourth-grade English class.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 7:29 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Believing that “this country was conceived on God” is about as ludicrous as believing in the Tooth Fairy.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 8:00 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
class, I think Tasha53s point is that you are getting sloppy in your old age.
An occasional misspelling or typo isn’t a problem, but when a reader has to muck their way through several in every post, they begin to wonder if the writer is uneducated, senile, or just can’t understand how to use a spell checker.
Personally, I’m going with the overwhelmingly consumed with hatred that nothing else matters.
Why do you HATE the country that gave you such magnificent opportunities in life?
And why do you HATE those who would choose to retain the freedoms and liberty that your ancestors enjoyed?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 8:56 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
And from the master retard.
” Classof52
Posted August 5th, 2008 at 5:39 pm PM This User Report this comment
Rose: Excuse me, I believe that Bill Hugenberg and the athiests(sic) should get a life,”
Another one of those Mesa County intellectuals who cannot even spell correctly the name of the group she is attacking.”
So, you are now open to attacks for your own, copious, misspellings and typos classless?
Good to know. Hang on, this is going to be a glorious ride.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 9:41 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ms. Richardson apparently believes that because ‘the people want it’ that they should ‘get’ it. When is it that she forgot that this is supposedly a government of laws, and ‘not of men’. Could it be that, despite her having read or heard or read it many times she still does not understand it? Or perhaps it is that she, as do many others, believe so strongly that they are ‘right’ that the law can be ignored? One has to wonder if she has even bothered thinking her position through, or merely emoting?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 9:45 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
oh bobbie, from Delta….
Have you moved into Mesa County yet?
Are you running for public office in Delta County?
If so, will you win with such a dramatic landslide as when your were elected to the school board?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
The vote on the invocation will apparently be tonight. Based on the discussion at the workshop Monday night, the council will vote to alter the invocations to conform with existing Constitutional guidelines.
It’s odd that with so much of the population in favor of keeping the invocation as it is, not a single representative of that base was present at the workshop.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:20 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
It takes some moral courage to advocate in public violating the Constitution. These folks prefer to hide under their anonymous rocks where they can take potshots.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:26 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
But all it takes is cowardice to lie on every subject, then ignore it, or say you never said it when directly questioned on the subject.
isn’t that right classless?
About your military service you mentioned…..?
How about your slander of real scientists that stand head and shoulders above the dregs of the scientific community, such as your self?
Run and hide your senile old fool, and hide from the truth.
Pathetic, truly pathetic.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:29 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
” Classof52
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:20 am PM This User Report this comment
It takes some moral courage to advocate in public violating the Constitution. These folks prefer to hide under their anonymous rocks where they can take potshots. ”
While trolls, such as the tmonkey, hide under their bridges?
Interesting.
Pitiful and pathetic, but interesting.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:42 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
While the atheists seize every opportunity to publicly grandstand and seek media attention, the Christian community has very quietly addressed their concerns in phone calls and letters to the City Council. The end result will be the opposite effect that the grandstanding atheists wanted. There will be no moment of silence. There will only be an expanded invocation policy. Instead of getting a no religious moment of silence, as was their desire, the result of the atheists grandstanding and public displays will be more religious invocations. The moral is that you need not scream and yell to make your point. In fact, such a tactic often backfires, as it will in this case.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:43 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - Your vitriol is particularly “un-Christian” this morning. I suggest you tune in TBN, get Bennie Hinn to lay hands on you, speak in tongues, and ask forgiveness from the baby Jesus - you won’t get it, but it never hurts to ask.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:47 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh now blubberboy, what would you know of ‘un-Christian’ like behavior?
As near as I can make out, the only group ’speaking in tongues’ would be the pathetic losers that belong to the Hate America liberal faith.
We hear, and read, a lot of meaningless blabber, but never find coherent ideas or thoughts from the buffoons of your ilk.
Why do you Hate America so much?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
a-p, maybe you forgot the group of christianists with signs and all, parading outside the courthouse. But I guess they weren’t publicly grandstanding or seeking media attention…
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:53 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
oh, the troll speaketh with stones from under his bridge….
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 10:54 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP: Instead of getting a no religious moment of silence, as was their desire, the result of the atheists grandstanding and public displays will be more religious invocations.
Their desire was for a constitutionally acceptable outcome. They did not specify which although some have said that a moment of silence was preferable. Now, it looks as though we may be getting Jewish invocations (which certainly will not mention Jesus Christ) Muslim invocations (which will certainly not mention Jesus Christ), Maybe even Wiccan invocations (which will certainly not mention Jesus Christ), etc. etc. Just what AP wanted, nocierto?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 11:00 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
No class, their motive was the disruption of society to draw attention to their lack of attention and the need they feel to be pitied by the majority of society.
Now, about your military service class?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 11:03 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP,
As as been indicated, the stricter guidelines are not the preferred result, but were included in the original letter way back in May as one of the options presented. This option was included because the atheists recognize the right of the council to have an invocation, and have done so from the beginning. I hope you saw the mayor on one of the local news stations Monday night acknowledging that the invocations have not been done in a lawful manner and would be changing.
The result of this is that the city is still “in the prayer business” and will remain liable for any breach of the guidelines, as well as spending time and effort to widen the invitations for the invocation (which will be the City Clerk’s responsibility) and to monitor the content. Note that this is not a threat of impending litigation, but a simple recognition of the situation which John Shaver, the city attorney, included in the resolution.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 11:07 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Scott, as a point of curiosity, weren’t you one of the crowd that was so intently awaiting the freep to set up a site where the liberals could go and enjoy Utopia at its finest?
If so, was utopia not truly achieved?
If not, why? Can it be, that once there, those seekers found nothing of value and needed to return here to spew their hatred and bitterness?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 11:14 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Nope, We are hanging around just to p*ss you off. It seems to be working too.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 11:18 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Not me little buddy.
I’m just curious of the why.
Nobody liked it here because their thoughts and beliefs were being questioned on a much to regular basis.
Lies to defend their beliefs became a way of life, then the lies were bing questioned.
I thought it was all just way too much to handle so they decided to run away in search of Shangri-la.
But poof, here they all are, back again.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 11:21 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
oh dc.
” dc
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 11:14 am PM This User Report this comment
Nope, We are hanging around just to p*ss you off. It seems to be working too.’
poorly worded.
‘irritate’ would have been a much more appropriate word for a family board such as this one would like to become.
We are all aware of the level you fellers think at.
We see no reason for it to spill over into a civil discussion.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 11:24 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Today’s Sentinel Editorial states that two solutions are being considered to the invocation issue. In both cases the prayer would not include the mention of a deity. The Sentinel then states that this would still not be accepable to the atheist group who will only settle for either a moment of silence or no prayer at all.
Is true that the atheist group will not accept either of the proposed changes to the invocation.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 1:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“Is true that the atheist group will not accept either of the proposed changes to the invocation.”
No, its not. Changing the invocation to conform to the guidelines established in the Marsh ruling (and confirmed by several subsequent cases) was one of the original options in the letter back in May. It has always been an acceptable change to the atheist group, simply because the current state of the law allows it. It is not the preferred change, because it still leaves the city open to litigation if the guidelines are not followed, and requires ongoing time and resources to monitor the invocations, as well as to recruit “invokers.” A moment of silence would both eliminate the city’s legal vulnerability as well as require no further effort on the city’s part. Based on the reasons given Monday for having the invocation (time to focus, reflect, etc.), the moment of silence would seem to work just as well as the prayer.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 1:37 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
In other words, it is perfectly acceptable for the City to cave to the pressure of the non-threatened lawsuit, just to make the whiners and losers ‘feel good’ about themselves.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 1:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis,
What makes you think that the atheists will be any less offended by any invocation? Do you honestly believe that the offense will go away with the use of “in the name of our lord” or “in the name of God”, or “in the name of our heavenly Father”? That was the reason for their demands, the offense they felt? And I predict right now that the offense will not stop, only their legal recourse will change. And before they can continue with demands, they will need a further interpretation of why what offends them is illegal. But I have great confidence, even to the point of predicting that they will find a new offense and make new demands.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
For everyone’s information (since some seem to be confused here). The Free press site will probably be activated Thursday. Many of us here will then post to both sites and continue to do so as long as there are interesting and thoughtful discussions going on. I will continue to ignore WLJ on this site despite his increasingly hysterical taunts and insults on this site and since he would last about 2 minutes on the Free Press site, we will be rid of his disgusting trash over there.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Now calss, are you trying to tell us that you lied about the freep site being available yesterday, and that’s why the leftist losers in search of Utopia have remained here?
Will you give details of your military career on that site?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I know American_Patriot, once a whiney loser, always a whiney loser.
Look at the number of whiney losers we have to deal with here daily.
Not a living brain cell among the entire bunch.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Thank you Scott. I, for one, would be very satisfied with either of the new proposals.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I told you earlier why we are still here, Willis. And it’s still working.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:11 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
You told me that the retards weren’t happy in the Utopia, and needed to come back here for their salvation?
Sorry dc, maybe you worded it poorly.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:11 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP,
As long as the council invocation is generic, there is no legal recourse that I am aware of. The Supreme Court has ruled that non-sectarian invocations are allowable, and both sides have to live with that. The atheists have to live with a generic prayer, and the Christians have to settle for a generic prayer.
Is it the best solution? In my opinion, no, for the reasons I stated above. Will there be a lawsuit later? That would seem to be up to the council.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
POOF!!! An epiphany….
Generic minds need a generic invocation so they can understand it.
That’s why they felt ‘excluded’, they couldn’t understand it.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ Alert!!
Willis didn’t take his meds this morning. Standard safety procedures are advised. Stay tuned for further alerts. That is all.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:20 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh, dc?
I do not take meds for anything except purely physical afflictions.
I hear that Prozac is the preferred medication for the vast majority of left wing nutjobs and global warming alarmists though.
Perhaps you should talk to your doctor?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:37 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willyman - Oh, so you take meds for “purely physical afflictions?” Do you prefer Viagra or Cialis for your ED?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
BuBBa,
ED, is that “Exceptional Dumbness”?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Now wouldn’t you little boys say that your comments are exceptionally childish and immature?
Wait, you on the same level with class. ‘nearly 4′.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:52 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc - Perhaps I should have said “flagging manhood.” Hey, how much fun can a man have when he lives in a single-wide, Pre-HUD trailer in Clifton and shoots Prairie Dogs for food?
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis,
Since you wrote the book on childish and immature, I will defer to your analysis.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:56 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, Bubba,
I lived in a pre-HUD trailer once in Silverthorne and ate Ramen noodles I killed myself. It wasn’t so bad, as long as the good dope held out.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
poor little children.
Pretend to be adults, but at the end of the day they resort to childish, immature rants.
Pathetic, and yet very pitiful at the same time.
No adult conversations left in their tiny little brains.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 2:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
And now we know what happened to what little intelligence dc possessed in his younger days.
Posted August 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
If I hear any more trouble coming out of this forum you are going to have to force me to call a time out. And you know what that means. So just share your playthings, quiet down. I’ll be back in twenty minutes and all these things scattered around the room had better be picked up. Now don’t make me have to come back in here.
Posted August 7th, 2008 at 8:38 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I am a veteran, and not a liberal but not really a conservative either. My big problem is that I look at things and I don’t let anyone tell me what I’m supposed to think and I decide what I believe and if new facts come in I try and re-evaluate what I believe. I’m an average American who tries to make the world a bit better because I believe that’s why we’re here. I’m a person who still gets a lump in my throat when I hear our National Anthem and someone who writes my representatives regularly (probably too much for their taste). I believe in God but I’m not a great believer in organized religion. I do feel if it floats your boat it’s what you should be doing. I have great respect for Christians who lead by example and not by their mouth. In fact I served with many such people when I was a VISTA (Volunteers in Service to America).
I am a bit sick of being bashed over the head by “Christians” who believe that theirs is the only religion on this earth. It’s not. It’s not even the majority anymore. And not wanting to hear what you have to say about god doesn’t make one an atheist, maybe it makes one someone who believe differently or even someone who believe the same but doesn’t see a need to try and convert everyone. Especially when you don’t want to hear what I have to say about my beliefs.
And let’s face it, most Christians can’t even agree among themselves which is the correct version of the religion. And not only are there different denominations there are different types among the denominations. I wonder which type of Christian are you…are you one that follows the teachings that say you should love your neighbor and give to others, maybe you’re the one who goes to church on Sunday and gossips about someone who has met with misfortune, could you be one who uses his/her religion as a reason to hate people or do you donate time joyfully to the bettering of our world and people. Are you the type of Christian who says leads by example or one that uses religion to feel superior to others? Maybe you’re one of the Christians who God flooded New Orleans because of the gays or one that stands with a sign that says Thank God for IEDs outside the funeral of a dead soldier? Or maybe you’re one that uses religion to make yourself rich and powerful.
I have no problems with an invocation as long as it doesn’t push anyone’s religion on me or push mine on you.
Posted August 7th, 2008 at 9:24 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Very reasonable comment, Charli. The Christians you are addressing routinely fail to respond to such reasonable questions. “Their’ Christianity is on a par with that of Janet Rowlands’. They are the only “true” Christians. I am a christian ( small “c” to differentiate )who does not support this angry cabal who wish to force their world view on the rest of us. If you can elicit anything from them besides hate speech and insults, good for you. The lessons I have learned from studying the words of Jesus of Nazareth are completely antithetical to the nastiness these zealots dwell in.
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