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“David Silverman, a spokesman for American Atheists, based in New Jersey, said the county commission invoking the name of Jesus during invocation is ‘borderline treason’ and a violation of the U.S. Constitution.
“When it comes right down to it, they know they are breaking the law,” he said. “If they want to keep doing it, we will sue, we will win and they will stop, and they will go to jail.”
From www.GJSentinel.com.
I guess that says it all. Although Mr. Silverman refers to elected officials, where will the atheists stop?
Military service members have selected their choice of faith for decades. Our vets, lying on hallowed federal ground, may now also guilty of treason for their faith being displayed above their remains if we continue to limit freedom of speech to be politically correct. Vets chose the cross, menorahs, wicca, etc., symbols for their monuments on federal and state lands. That they sacrificed so American Atheists can have someone thrown in jail over free speech is the real violation of our Constitution.
Some gave all, all gave some. Only death will finally settle the argument for some. Until then, faith, hope and love should still be a public official’s right too. And our vets’ right.
GREG MERSCHEL
Grand Junction
185 Responses to “Where will the atheists stop?”
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 11:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
For those of you who don’t know, Greg Merschel was the guy in the Marine Uniform standing tall in support of our troops at 4th and Rood, when the anti-troop types were holding their protest demonstrations, and I am proud to have stood beside him. Freedom has a different meaning to those who have fought for it.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:12 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Altough I think Mr. Silverman’s rhetoric is over the top and not representative of most of those in sympathy of the local atheists, Mr. Merschel’s examples are all beside the point. It isn’t free specch at issue nor is it the implied patriotism. A government sponsored meeting open to the public and for the purpose of doing the busines of ALL the public is not an appropriate place for sectarian prayer. It is also not a matter for majority rule. I agree with Ms. Landman that only a silent moment of contemplation or prayer is appropriate. The law, as indicated by precedents, allows for more than that as long as pure sectarian practices and beliefs are not part of the ceremony. Atheists as a group do not hate those with religious beliefs. I don’t understand the uproar from people of faith and their apparent hatred of those who do not hold their beliefs. The only place where sectarian prayer is not appropriate or legal is on government property, in some cases, and in government meetings . The fact that there are lots of instances where it happens does not make it right.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. Merschel,
Your sacrifice is what makes it possible for those who were demonstrating, able to demostrate. Unfortunately, they are too naive or too self serving or too easily swayed or too “something” to understand or make the connection. Please know that there are more of us in the valley who do understand it and appreciate it. I salute you and whole heartedly thank you!
P.S. You, too, AP!
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:16 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Merschel obviously does not understand the Constitution either. To compare prayer in tax supported government meetings to the particular faith displayed on a cemetery marker is absurd and irrelevant to the question. The issue has nothing whatsoever to do with free speech. A marine uniform obviously does not guarantee understanding of the issues.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
And of course to people like Class, protecting the Constitution means nothing, unless the individual accepts his interpretation of what the Constitution means. Did Class say he was fighting for freedom? Is that his interpretation?
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Class,
On second thought Class, what have you done to earn the right to criticize the man or the uniform? Would you like a suggestion as to where you can stow your attitude, so it doesn’t get Sun burned?
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I criticised neither the man nor his uniform, merely his obvious lack of understanding of the issue. Quite different, flag waver.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:40 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It’s just funny to me how far - and how long - issues like this can go on.
The fight over the Mount Soledad cross in San Diego has been going on since 1989.
“The dispute dates back to 1989, and at one point the arguments included an order for San Diego to take the cross down. But in 1998 the city sold the property to the Mt. Soledad War Memorial Association, a move that again was challenged in court. The sale originally was upheld but later ruled unconstitutional by the full panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco and remanded back to district court to work out a remedy.
Then Proposition A, passed by 76 percent of the voters in July 2005, called for the city to donate the cross to the federal government as the centerpiece of the veterans memorial. Finally, Congress stepped and ordered the ownership of the land transferred to the federal government, a plan signed into law last year by President Bush.”
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=71003
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Yeah, Class, but the difference between you and I is the flag that we wave. Your’s is red, mine is Red, White and Blue. And yes, you did criticize the man and the uniform. You ungrateful pencil neck.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 12:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Odd, My Discharge from the United States Navy quite plainly says “HONORABLE”.
What does your say gene?
You claimed military service, but have steadfastly refused to submit facts and details.
Why is that gene? No service, or no Honorable Discharge certificate?
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 1:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Where will the Atheists Stop?
Two paces past the gates of Hell!!!
AP: Yeah, Class, but the difference between you and I is the flag that we wave. Your’s is red, mine is Red, White and Blue. And yes, you did criticize the man and the uniform. You ungrateful pencil neck.
I’m right behind you AP.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 1:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP/Willyman - It’s obvious that both of you continue to be upset about the City Council’s decision (6-1) to modify their invocation policy to comply with current law. At this point you have three realistic options:
1) File a lawsuit in district court challenging the new policy.
2) Begin the process of recalling all councilpersons who voted to modify the old policy.
3) Live with the decision of your elected representatives and “move on.”
Since options 1 and 2 require “action” on your parts, the chances of either one of them happening are about as great as the “rapture” prophesy being fulfilled. The only choice left is “moving on.”
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 1:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha53 - The fear of going to Hell exists for for those who believe Hell exists. Rational thinking people are not burdened with that superstition.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 1:16 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GjBubba,
I can think of one more option that has a real good chance of succeeding. And wouldn’t be subject to recall. It sounded a little to me like you missed one of the people on your list. That is a match up I’d give five bucks to watch. Why don’t you phone Greg Merschel and tell him exactly how you feel? But wait an hour or so, he is in a class/meeting right now.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 2:33 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ:Why is that gene? No service, or no Honorable Discharge certificate?
Isn’t there some real truth to the widely circulated rumor that you served jail time for spousal abuse? (Two can play your slimy little game of innuendo WLJ)
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 2:40 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Now gene, YOU claimed military service, I did not assign that to you.
On the other hand, this little blurb you tossed out is just another unsubstantiated lie that you created inside your pathetic little mind in hopes of deflecting the truth away from your own inability to operate in the real world without resorting to lies.
There is no ’slimy little game of innuendo’ Mr. J.E. Fox. Just you trying to slide out from under another unsubstantiated claim that YOU made when YOU claimed service in the United States Military.
Prove your claim.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 2:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
APYeah, Class, but the difference between you and I(sic) is the flag that we wave. Your’s is red, mine is Red, White and Blue. And yes, you did criticize the man and the uniform. You ungrateful pencil neck.
Anybody who posts an idea on this public forum is subject to having his ideas criticised. It is called freedom of speech Unamerican patriot. I suggest you learn something about the Constitution so you can truly become a citizen of this great country. Despite your absurd assertion, you can not find a single sentence where I criticised the man or his uniform personally, only his lack of understanding. You on the other hand continue to insult me personally with every posting. Can’t stand the heat of intellectual discourse? Or the rules of grammar?
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Freedom of Speech does not extend to the ‘freedom’ to lie.
I know Mr. Merschel, and there is not a doubt that he more aware of the Constitution than you are capable of learning gene.
Now, about your military service you claimed?
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 2:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ: “Just you trying to slide out from under another unsubstantiated claim that YOU made when YOU claimed service in the United States Military.
Prove your claim.”
Which claim would that be? Quote me the sentence you are referring to please.
I don’t have to prove anything to you! Who do you think you are demanding to know my private business? You are a non-entity hiding behind what you think is an anonymous electronic personna (even though several of us now know who you really are). You have no claim on any information from me whatsoever. If you confess your true identity in this public forum and tell us where you supposedly got a college degree, I might think about responding to some of your questions. Otherwise, forget it.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 3:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sorry gene, you made a claim of military service, and have been running from it since you posted it.
Either you served, or you did not serve.
By your own posts you went from highschool, to college, to graduate studies, to professorship, to private industry.
No 2, 4 or 6 year lapse for military service.
Now the question seems to be, why lie about it in the first place? What did you expect to gain from creating the lie?
And why continue the lie now that it is out in the open? What do you have to gain?
Other than giving me the opportunity to slam you for all the lies you keep telling on this site?
Utopia was created fro you and your ilk on the freep, but yet you remain here to spew forth your hatred of America.
Why is that gene?
Are you afraid that some people may like to log on for decent conversation and discussion of events without your belittle them?
What do you gain from that gene?
Is it an ego trip?
You are about the most pitiful excuse for a human as I have ever met.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 3:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ: Sorry gene, you made a claim of military service, and have been running from it since you posted it.
Well if that is true, then you should have no trouble reminding us all of exactly what I posted. Put up or shut up.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 3:21 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey!!! What a swell idea gene, why don’t you shut up and go to the utopia where you don’t have to put up with the constant barrage of being caught in your lies?
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 3:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
WLJ: Either you served, or you did not serve.
By your own posts you went from highschool, to college, to graduate studies, to professorship, to private industry.
No 2, 4 or 6 year lapse for military service.
You are entirely ignorant of my career. You do not have the vaguest notion of what you are talking about. So quit lying about what I have posted and stop trying to pry into my private business. No amount of taunting or insults are going to do you any good. Coming from you, about the most worthless poster on the forum, they are just water off a duck’s back.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 3:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP - I’m curious, what option, “that has a real good chance of succeeding. And wouldn’t be subject to recall” did I miss? Please elucidate.
Oh, did I mention that 5 of the 6 Grand Junction City Councilpersons who voted for the invocation policy modifications are registered Mesa County Republicans. Suing or recalling your own people, now that would endear you guys with the party stalwarts.
The time for cheap talk is over, it’s “nut cutting” time - sue, recall, or shut up!
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 3:37 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
poor class.
Constantly being caught in lies, and screams in frustration, but always with the underlying suspicion that I can prove my claims.
Call my bluff little buddy.
As to my ‘ignorance’ of your career, I’m just going by what YOU actually posted.
Remember way back when you moaned about the poverty your father, unable to properly support his family caused you to have to work your own way through college, and you ‘athletic scholarship’?
You have made a lot of claims little feller since you have been posting on here little feller.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 3:38 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Class,
I guess it is because you are such an easy target, Class. Everything that comes out of your mouth is an insult to discourse. Unfortunately it is your lack of understanding that precipitates your convulsive public displays. The only positions that you adopt are those you feel might provide some self gratification.
The words duty, honor, country are as foreign to your mentality as the flag that you wave is to our thinking. What perverse mental virus is this that has eaten it’s way into your soul, and compels you against all things of your own nation, and God? Are you then bent upon destruction as a result of some real or imagined slight? You attack others deeply held beliefs with a zealousness of a man killing snakes. Is that your perception of Christians? You fancy yourself a defender of the Constitution. I think sir, that you do not know the meaning of that term. You judge all harshly that would stand against your destructive rage. But you judge yourself not at all. You act and speak as a man without conscience. You justify the unjustifiable, and lay claim to Hades with a doubtless resolve of one who has abandoned all hope of redemption. You blaspheme with the ease of a cretin, unmindful of the pillage in your words. I don’t believe I have ever met a man so in love with himself, and that is the uniqueness of it. You rush to look into the abyss, without consciousness that when you do so, the abyss looks into you. Pity the man who tarries where Angels fear to tread.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 4:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GJBubba,
Actually that was your first scenario of choice. I believe as you explained it before we were supposed to turn on our own and that would benefit your atheist agenda. I am ever amazed at how you atheist work against yourself. Do you think that we do not know the progression of your agenda? Didn’t it occur to you that you furnished the issue that will put true Republicans over the top in this election.
Your stalwart defense of Mr. Kearsley was the catalyst for his exposure as being the atheist candidate of choice. Do you think that helped his position? Politically, your problem is situational awareness.
Contrary to what you may believe, we are not in the habit of eating our young nor are we in the habit of making novice political mistakes.
It is just people such as yourself, those who feel compelled to put their business on the street and lean towards bravado and bragging that will doom your agenda in the political arena.
But we on the other side appreciate you very much. Keep up the good work.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 8:12 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. Merschel - your statement “Military service members have selected their choice of faith for decades. Our vets, lying on hallowed federal ground, may now also guilty of treason for their faith being displayed above their remains if we continue to limit freedom of speech to be politically correct. Vets chose the cross, menorahs, wicca, etc., symbols for their monuments on federal and state lands. That they sacrificed so American Atheists can have someone thrown in jail over free speech is the real violation of our Constitution.” deserves a modicum of response.
Military members are generally not offered a ‘choice’ of religion. It is quite simply force-fed early on and is invariably Christian. Hey, its a captive audience and, in the military, acceptance and belonging is paramount. So, please don’t dare refer to this as a choice.
The veterans don’t really have a choice in what is displayed above their remains. Others do that for them, whether they would have agreed or not. Get it straight.
The vets, of which I am one, did not sacrifice for anyone’s religious preference. I did not, during my service in Nam or any other place think for one moment that my actions would help or hinder anyone who was Catholic, Pentecostal, LDS, or Pastafarian! My service was about my country, not somebody’s religion, or lack thereof. Please don’t defend your own narrow-minded beliefs by trying to cloak them as being linked to the honoring of our veterans.
BTW - A_P - you once again display not only your ignorance of history and the law, but also your obvious lack of standing in both experience and education. Please, take some night courses! Also, your continued vitriolic attacks on others in this forum are, at the least, unwelcome and do not say much about your ‘patriotic’ civility.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 8:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, damoron once again proves his inability to understand the military.
ALL members of the military are given free rein in the choosing of their religious preferences, and no stigma is placed on any person for their choice.
The military doe not care.
Only to the extent that if, in the case of death, their religious, or other, preferences are treated accordingly.
Reality check fool.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 8:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Congratulations to Incumbent County Commissioner Janet Rowland on her big win. And I would like to personally thank all the atheists who did so much to make that possible.
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 8:47 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Woo hoo!
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 9:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
2008 Primary Election (unofficial) results.
County Commissioner District 3
Janet Rowland 5684 63.9%
Dave Kearsley 3138 35.3%
Posted August 12th, 2008 at 10:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, the next few months should be very entertaining.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 7:27 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, the dentists should make a killing with all the grinding of teeth going on….
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 7:41 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Found where I said I’d never read the Constitution yet Willis? Or are you just trying to let it drop and hope people forget you once again couldn’t support one of your accusations?
You said you had it. Where is it?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 8:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Yup, did you go looking yet?
I know which file I have it in.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 8:06 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Janet Rowland’s landslide victory, if anything, is a commentary on the flash in the pan atheist agenda and strategy. Their political miscalculations have resulted in the opposite effect of what they intended. Their first mistake was placing themselves in an adversarial position to the Christian community. It is inconceivable that their leadership would make such an obvious political blunder. The only possible explanation is that Anne Landman and semi-retired attorney Bill Hugenberg, in their gadfly attempts for personal recognition and the limelight lost track of the fact that they came to drain the swamp, and consequently found themselves up to their necks in a pond full of alligators.
As so often happens in political matters, the atheist strategy did not survive its first contact with the public. What should follow for the atheists is a period of introspection and reassessment of their strategies and goals. Predictably, with such a radical group, that will not happen. It is more likely that they will busy themselves with the blame game and an internal power struggle, and dependant on the outcome, a new leadership and strategy will emerge. Or on the other hand, the old failed leadership will renew their efforts in headline grabbing in their search for self importance.
The most probable occurrence is the later, and that means we can expect even greater demands backed by threat of litigation and lawsuit, with little or no efforts to solicit public support to their issue. It is too late to turn back now. With their first veiled hints of lawsuits, the atheists burned the bridge of community support behind them. They lost any moral high ground they may have attained through their “we are the victims” mantra.
That strategy transition was the beginning of the end. By relinquishing their quest for public support, in favor of the power play, they also relinquished their most effective tool and placed themselves on a path that will eventually and inevitably lead to the loss of their second most powerful tool; the threat of litigation.
Local elected officials, with public support behind them, can now call the atheist litigation bluff. And to be credible the atheists will be forced to carry through with litigation or drop their agenda. Either way, what we will have is a whole new political poker game. Got a hunch, bet a bunch.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 8:13 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, kearsley can always run on the newly formed atheist party platform.
With the original 13 atheists and ‘free(?)thinkers’, fawks and friends, huggieberg, and everybody else that hates Christianity, he could probably amass a total of 3 votes.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 8:14 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
The reaction of the local ‘theocrats’ such as Sue and AP was fully predictable. Unfortunately, their previous arguments in the cause of Ms. Rowland, and they are by no means the only ones, chose to prostitute their ‘religion’ in the cause of materialism; i.e. political power and influence.
Such individuals will undoubtedly engage in heated denial but, that does not negate the true nature of their behavior.
Now that they have, by their own choice, opened the door between church and state, the people of the polity have every right to enter the churches or other places of worship of such individuals and to begin, not only questioning, but influencing and dictating what its members are taught, believe and how they worship. If it does not serve the ‘interests of the state’, the ‘majority’ of the people have every right to demand that they be changed.
And that is true, not only in Mesa County, but throughout the Grand Valley and beyond.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 8:34 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis,
Why would I look for something that doesn’t exist? You claim you have it, post it. It was your claim in the forst place.
You won’t, because you don’t have it. You don’t have it because I never said that. My bet is that you will simply continue to dance around, tossing insults but never actually supporting your claim, even though you say you can. Just another lie.
Prove me wrong.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 8:37 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP,
You keep saying that the atheists have lost, that their agenda has failed.
Why do you say this? They asked the city council to change what they were doing, and the city council did. Seems like a victory to me. You are simply assuming there is more to it.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 8:38 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Um, Robert? You live in Delta. Why, pray tell, do you care how Mesa county voters vote?
Janet Rowland got my vote (and will in November) because I live and work in Mesa County. In my opinion, there is no reason to believe she isn’t the person to do the job in the future. I don’t see that voting for her to remain in office has opened the door between church and state, I see it as a testament to the job she has already done and is expected to continue to do.
Tell you what, since this is a democracy, I’ll vote for whomever I feel is the best choice for office and you do the same. I don’t have to agree with your choice and you don’t have to agree with mine. Deal?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 8:52 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sue asks: “Um, Robert? You live in Delta. Why, pray tell, do you care how Mesa county voters vote?”
It is a valid question but the real issue is not Janet Rowland, now is it? She is merely a symptom of a much larger issue. The real question is, and the one that needs to be the separation of church and state, a barrier which some wish to demolish. Something that, when some of us look at, are reminded of the old admonition that “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”.
Perhaps Sue and others do not have a sufficient knowledge of history to understand what has always happened when church and state were combined. They have laid the foundations for the biggest disasters ever to have befallen humanity, and the most horendous violence against individuals.
When combining two or more forces that should be kept separate, one will inevitably serving the purpose(s) of the other. Therefore, it is best not to join together in the first place.
Sue also says: “I’ll vote for whomever I feel is the best choice for office and you do the same.”
Which is absolutely true and I will defend her right to do so. What is often lacking in far too many is that they really do not take the time to consider all the consequences of their vote.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 9:00 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Scott,
Atta boy, Scott, sho you right, right on. You just keep thinking that.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 9:24 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, since I am in a position to know what the atheist agenda really is, I will.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 9:45 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Scott,
So you are giving your word that the atheists have no intention, no plans or no agenda to make a request/demand of the Mesa County Commissioners similar or the same as the one they made of the City Council.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 9:55 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’m glad that Mrs. Rowlands won her election. She makes more sense than the other guy that couldn’t answer easy questions on the budget or the energy problems.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 9:58 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
No, I am not saying that. Quite the contrary.
I am saying that you are quite wrong in your assumption that there is an atheist agenda, at least at this point, that extends beyond the invocations held at the city council and county commissioner meetings. There is no Sierra Club connection, no long range plan to repeal the Second Amendment. That this happens to be an election year never entered the discussion. The atheists are simply a group of citizens who have seen a problem in how our local government is conducting its business, and are attempting to rectify that situation. At this time there are no plans to do anything beyond that. I’m sure they will do something, but they have not decided, determined or even discussed what that will be.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 10:00 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Alexander - As part of your ongoing eduction, you should spell Janet’s name correctly. It’s Mrs. Rowland, NOT Mrs. Rowland(s)
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 10:13 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Then it would appear Scott, contrary to what you stated in your prior post, there is more to it. Either that or you do not, as you claim, have knowledge of the atheist agenda. And that is what is known as an agenda. Your leadership cannot afford to be without an agenda. They will continue to make issues where there are none. Without them, there is no need for the group and hence no need for the leadership.
I will agree with you that your leadership’s miscalculation in pushing their agenda in an election year was the result of lack of forethought, and there also appears to be a major disconnect between some of the atheist proponents (GJBubba) and your version of the atheist strategy. He has repeatedly declared that it is the atheist’s agenda to take over. You will recall his statement that Meis and Rowland must go down. Are you now saying that Commissioner Rowland’s landslide victory was an intended consequence, and your group considers their contribution to her victory a win for the atheists? If so, I am wondering how many more such victories you have planned? We’ll take all you got, with thanks.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 10:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
If there is any more to it than what I stated, it only what you have imagined. The atheists are a group of non-believers who get together on occasion to discuss issues relevant to atheism. If possible, they’d like to show the general public that atheists are not the demon-possessed monsters that many think them to be. It was brought up at one of those gatherings that the city council invocations were in violation of Supreme Court rulings and it was decided to send them a letter. The same will no doubt be done with the county commissioners. Janet Rowland’s victory was never a consideration, nor was it ever considered as it is irrelevant, although had she lost the primary the problem may well have solved itself after November.
Do you think the invocation issue is what won her the election? What do you think the result would have been without that issue? I think you overestimate the influence the invocation issue had on the voting.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 10:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis,
How about that citation? You’ve claimed you have it at least twice now. You wouldn’t want your supporters to think you’re just blowing smoke now, would you?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 11:13 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Not me little buddy. My ’supporters’ have a clue.
But, back to the subject, class claimed military service and never gave any details, yet you never questioned him on the subject.
Double standard scott?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 11:56 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP - I think you’re putting the “cart before the horse” regarding Rowland’s “victory” in the primary.
There is absolutely no data whatsoever indicating how much, if any, influence the invocation controversy had on Rowland’s victory over Dave Kearsley. None whatsoever.
Janet’s victory in the primary is not a valid indicator of how “Mrs. Bestiality” will do in the general election. Kearsley garnered nearly 40 percent of the Republican primary vote. It’s reasonable to expect that a number of his supporters will not support Rowland in November, but will either not vote at all for the position or vote for Dickie Lewis, the Democratic candidate.
Speaking of Dickie Lewis.
In case you don’t know, Lewis is a trial lawyer. I’ve seen him work in the courtroom, and I can guarantee you he will eviscerate Janet in any open debate (there will be at least 3 public debates). It’s not even going to be close!
Your statement that, “He (GJB) has repeatedly declared that it is the atheist’s agenda to take over” is simply not true.
What I actually said was that the atheists had “won” the controversy when the Grand Junction City Council voted 6-1 (with 5 of the 6 votes coming from registered Mesa County Republicans!) voted to modify their existing invocation policy.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 12:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis,
I have no reason to doubt Classof52’s claim. I do have reason to doubt yours. You have repeatedly said you have the cite to support your claim. You have refused to produce it. One can only assume that you cannot.
I personally KNOW you can’t produce it becasue it doesn’t exist. I’m making a definite claim, and all you would have to do to prove me a liar is to show where I said I’d never read the Constitution. Yet you haven’t. Your supporters have a clue, WIllis. They have a clue you’re blowing smoke once again.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 1:34 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Mr. GJBubba. Did somebody make you the spelling cop? Each time I have placed a message here, you have found some reason to correct me. Do you get corrected by other people everytime you make a mistake?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 2:29 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GjBubba
With the exception of you, there is no data indicating that anyone who voted for Dave Kearsley will not vote for Janet Rowland in the general election. You see, most of them are real Republicans, not some radical left wing Democrat who changed party affiliations so he could make an ass of himself. And I’m afraid your memory is as faulty as your predictions. You might drop one or two of your alter egos.
Then you might be able to remember what you said. Otherwise your candidate wouldn’t have gone home with his tail between his legs. He was an attorney too, and an investment banker, and to hear you tell it over the last couple of months he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. But he went down hard, didn’t he? You might try glancing at the scoreboard once in a while. Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and nuclear weapons.
There is no second place in politics. There is a winner and there is a loser, and your boy was a loser. And your new boy will be a loser in November. Who would vote for a Dickie attorney anyway? Remember back when all the bragging was going on about how Kearsley had gotten the endorsement of the local newspaper. Do you have any idea how often they have been wrong? There is an old saying; all politics are local. And to understand Western Slope politics, you need to be local. Seems like every other year there is some Johnny come lately transplant trying to tell us his version of how politics works. We listen politely and then send him home with his tail between his legs.
Just a couple of weeks ago, there was speculation on how well Kearsley would do in a debate. You might want to attend in the future. I did, and your boy fell flat on his face. And I suspect there will be room enough for your new guy, down there on the floor.
And just what would you know about the truth. That is why you have to keep changing your handle, because you have been caught in one lie after another. You might check with your psychiatrist and see how he feels about that. Your credibility was used up long ago. And if you really believe that the atheist agenda really had nothing to do with the election, then you won’t mind if we rewind it and play it again for the general election. You need to take your Meis and Rowland are going down prediction, put it in your back pocket or there-bouts, and get on with your bad self. I think you would do a lot better if you tried to peddle your papers elsewhere.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 2:41 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Scott,
Well, Scott, I’m sure you are right that the invocation issue had nothing to do with the election. That being the case, you won’t mind if we rewind it and play it again for the general election. Where else but Western Slope politics do you have the opportunity to learn the same lesson twice.
As for your atheist group, they just happened to be talking one day and decide it would help their cause to piss off about 90% of the population on the Western Slope. I guess the only way you could describe that would be to call is an executive decision.
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Before the primary, I laid it right out in the open for you. Told you what the result would be, and even gave you advice on how to keep it from happening. I did that in the sure and certain knowledge that no one on your side would look at the facts objectively. No doubt you know what you want to do, you just have no idea how to do it. And that my friend makes all the difference in the world. And I will make a prediction that your group will keep right on reinforcing it’s mistakes, and placing the blame everywhere but where it belongs. Why, because it is predictable
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 2:52 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP - Having a bad day, are we Tonto? As for the November election, we’ll just have to wait and see, won’t we?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 2:52 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP,
Blame for what? What went wrong? You haven’t demonstrated that anything the atheists have done has gone wrong in any way. The atheists didn’t expect to be beloved for asking that the invocations be changed. They did expect the city council to take them seriously, and they did. They did expect the city council to recognize what they were doing needed to be changed and change it, and they did.
As far as I can see, everything is going quite well for the atheists. Just because things aren’t playing out the way you imagine the atheists want them has nothing to do with reality. Things are going quite well, thank you.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP,
Did you see the story in todays Sentinel about the County Commissioners voting not to not pursue legal action against Delta Petroleum? I don’t know the details but it seemed like a flagrant violation by Delta Petroleum, starting construction 2 1/2 months before they received any permits. If nothing else fining them would serve as a warning to others to obey the law. Commissioner Rowland voted against granting the permits and they were issued over her objections. Note that Commissioner Acquafresca who cast the deciding vote said: “I’m not happy with pursuing criminal charges” Commissioner Meis refused to recluse himself even though his company Cordillian has multiple dealings with Delta Petroleum. Do you see something fishy here? Are we seeing a new Commissioner Rowland?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Alexander - If you are the naive teenager you claim to be (which everyone seriously doubts), you’d welcome correction from your elders.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Just curious. The Sentinel is up for sale, any takers?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
rm - You said, “Are we seeing a new Commissioner Rowland?”
No, we’re not seeing a “new” Commissioner Rowland, we’re seeing a “scared” Commissioner Rowland. She knows that a lot of people (including many Republicans)vehemently resent her handing her vote on all energy issues to Craig Meis four years ago. She knows that this fact will be used against her in the upcoming campaign. The bitch is running scared, and she should be!
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Geez, maybe she just did the right thing. It can happen, you know.
Look, I don’t agree with Ms. Rowland on 99.99% of her opinions, and while I think she’s far too chummy with the likes of Craig Meis (Who could be Dick Cheney’s Mini-Me), and I find the whole “invocation” issue pretty damn stupid on both sides, she won fair and square. A large majority of her constituents decided she was more in line with their views than her opponent was. Maybe it *was* about religion. If so, that’s why they voted the way they did. That’s what Representative Democracy is all about, isn’t it?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Scott,
You need to tell all of that to Kearsley. He’s the one that paid for it. It sounds to me like you are saying, we can see the bottom from here, but we ain’t there yet? But if you are happy with it, I’m tickled pink. I am just kicking myself because I should have thought of it before you guys did. But like I always say “The Lord works in mysterious ways, his miracles to perform”. Go for it.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
What is “it”? What did Dave Kearsley pay for? What are we happy with? What should you have thought of?
I really have no idea what you’re on about. Too many conspiracy theories colliding, I think.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:21 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GJBubba,
My, My, Proteus, aka GJBubba. I don’t mind so much you losing your temper, but you really do need to get control of that alligator mouth, before it gets your canary butt in a legal sling.
rm,
I am afraid we have always had the same Commissioner Rowland. The problem has been that the atheists and freethinkers have always refused to recognize her objectivity. Seems it didn’t fit in their agenda, especially the free thinker side. For a definition of that see GJBubba. And I’ll bet all this time, he’s been under the misapprehension that his good buddy Tonto didn’t know. Just take a look at his candidate of choice in the general election. Yeah, he’s a free thinker all right.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Scott,
Try reading it like it was written. No conspiracy theories, just fact, or you can ask Mr. Kearsley, I’ll bet he knows. Why is it every time you get into a bind, Scott, you start acting like you don’t understand. You have got to know by now that I am aware of your intelligence. If it were any other way, you wouldn’t have been useful to me at all.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP,
“The problem has been that the atheists and freethinkers have always refused to recognize her objectivity.”
Ok she is being objective. She is recognizing the flagrant dereliction of duty of Commissioners Meis and Acquafresca why aren’t you jumping all over their case?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:41 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GJBubba, I know not whether you are male of female, but I do know that your language is deplorable. Whatever your personal feelings towards Mrs. Rowland are, she IS more of a Lady, than you could ever hope to be either a gentleman or lady. I suggest you sleep under the back step for a few weeks until you learn some proper manners and speak well of others in spite of your differences
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GJB … your manners ARE slipping, friend. I am probably not one to talk, but I do not like to hear any woman referred to by the “B” word.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 3:47 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
rm,
Gee whiz, I thought that is what you guys did. Surely you don’t expect me to do your work for you. I’m quite happy with their representation. That is the problem, you guys just never know where to take your complaints. But maybe I can help, the address you have been looking for is 6th and Rood. I would use the East door. It is closer to the elevator, but be careful when you go down there, you might find out what goes into those decisions, and that might affect your value judgments.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP - You said, “I don’t mind so much you losing your temper, but you really do need to get control of that alligator mouth, before it gets your canary butt in a legal sling.”
AP - I can’t tell you how petrified I am to your threat of legal action - I assume for my referring to you as “Tonto.” Should I be concerned enough to start a legal defense fund? Please advise.
For those who are not familiar with the fictional character of Tonto, following is an excerpt from Wikipedia:
“Tonto is a fictional character, the American Indian companion of The Lone Ranger, a popular American Western character created by George W. Trendle and Fran Striker. He has appeared in radio and television series and other presentations of the characters’ adventures righting wrongs in 19th century western America.
This Native American was portrayed as an intelligent character, almost an equal partner to the Ranger in his work. Together, they seem to be capable of righting almost any wrong within the half-hour time frame.
The radio series identified Tonto as a chief’s son in the Potawatomi nation. His name translates as ‘wild one’ in his own language. For the most part, the Potawatomi did not live in the Southwestern states, and their cultural costume is different from that worn by Tonto. The choice to make Tonto a Potawatomi seems to come from station owner George Trendle’s youth in Michigan. This is the traditional territory of the Potawatomi, and many local institutions use Potawatomi names. The phrase kemo sabe, however, was coined not by Trendle but by James Jewell, co-creator and director of the radio series; according to Jewell, his father-in-law ran a camp named Ke-Moh-Sah-Bee in Michigan, and he understood the word to mean “trusty scout”. Cecil Adams of The Straight Dope confirmed with linguists that “kemosabe” could plausibly be an Ojibwe word (giimoozaabi) for “scout” [2].
Tonto’s name, according to an NPR story on the Lone Ranger, was inspired by the name of Tonto Basin, Arizona.”
It will be interesting to see how far you get in court after the judge stops laughing, but if you insist on pursuing the matter, my reaction, in the immortal words of your idiot president:
“Bring it on!”
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It is interesting to note the criticism of ‘freethinkers’. What would be any other valid type of thinking? I know of none. Perhaps it is up to those who criticize ‘freethinking’ as wrong, would care to propose another type. Dare we hope that they will>
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:11 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash/Alphalpha - You’re both partially correct. However, if you have ever met Rowland and talked to her for more than a few minutes, I don’t know many (males, at least) who wouldn’t refer to her in the manner I did.
However, in the spirit of gender harmony, I hereby change the “b” word to “Ms. Bestiality,” a term the accuracy of which is well-documented.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:12 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I do not mind “Ms. Bestiality” at all. That is very accurate.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:17 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GJBubba,
I have told you this before, but you must have been over medicated at the time. I don’t make threats and I don’t give warnings. If something comes from me it will come suddenly and out of nowhere. I guess you can call me anything you want, you are going to anyway. I don’t take it too seriously. You see Jay Silverheels is one of my heroes. Second to Richard Milhouse Nixon. UH OH, I’ll bet I pushed another one of those buttons.
But as for your alligator mouth, I certainly can’t speak for Janet Rowland’s husband or her attorney, but next time I talk to her, I’ll try to get an answer for you, just because I like you.
Are you trying to say that George Bush isn’t your President? My Goodness, what planet are you from? And are you expecting the Mother ship soon?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:18 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I have visited with the Lady in question, and the “Ms. Bestiality” label is categorically WRONG. The only reason I can see for someone taking her comments and trying to turn it into something disgusting is if they really do have intimate relationships with their pets.
The “accuracy” of which you speak is not accurate, but a bunch of lies based on statements taken out of context. I noticed a letter to the Editor based on taking things out of context. Do the same rules no apply here?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP,
What I don’t understand, AP, is your use of “it” in your post #66. Are you referring to what I said, the atheist agenda, your wild conspiracies or what? When you use “it” with nothing specifying what “it” is, it gets confusing.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GJBubba,
I told you he was a freethinker, not to be confused with someone who thinks freely for themselves. Yup, GJBubba just bubbles over with harmony. Well I guess it is harmony he is full of. Isn’t that some kind of exploded corn or something.
Yeah, a true Gentleman that GJBubba. I like him a lot. I just try to keep him away from the little farm animals.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP posts: “I don’t make threats and I don’t give warnings. If something comes from me it will come suddenly and out of nowhere.” Undoubtedly true but, he may have added “…, and without any thinking on my part”, as such might have given us the true nature of his reactionary thought process.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:28 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I believe it may be too late to keep this person away from small animals. His comments indicate a support of bestiality, and the possible marriage to animals. And that concerns me about Ash, because she seems like an intelligent, modern woman, secure in her marriage.
But she agrees with the assessment of another Lady.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Alphalpha, post 79 … The term “Ms. Bestiality” refers to Rowland’s hideous, extremely bigoted comparison of homosexuality to bestiality during an interview in 2006. Thus I assure you that particular nickname is VERY accurate and well deserved.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:33 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Scott,
It refers to the atheist agenda or if you prefer it was a small mop impersonation on the old Adam’s Family TV show, often referred to as cousin It. I think possibly a descendant from Gomez’s side of the family or perhaps related in some weird way to Learch. I don’t know, ask GJBubba? He knows about genetics you know, DNA and twisted chromosomes, things like that.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Alphaalpha,
I knew it. I know my sheep and they don’t lie.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP - You said, “I don’t make threats and I don’t give warnings. If something comes from me it will come suddenly and out of nowhere.”
AP - I assume you mean that, “If something comes from me it will come suddenly and out of nowhere,” means one of your “Stormtroopers for Christ” (AKA, The Baby Jesus Brigade”) being recruited for the planned boycott of Grand Junction atheists and their businesses. I’m not worried, they should be easy to identify in their jackboots and crusader crosses emblazoned on their armbands.
You also said,”Are you trying to say that George Bush isn’t your President?”
On that point you are entirely correct. Along with millions of others, I have never recognized George W. Bush as my president.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
The interview that Ash is referring to was about same sex marriage, and Ms. Rowlands answer was and this is a quote.
ROWLAND: I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. Homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle, that doesn’t make it a marriage. Some people have group sex — should we allow two men and three women to marry? Should we allow polygamy with one man and five wives? For some people, the alternative lifestyle is bestiality — do we allow a man to marry a sheep? I mean, at some point, you have to draw a line.”
As you can see, Ash’s interpretation isn’t exactly what was said.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash I am well aware of the origin of the name. Your use of the name indicates to me that you do not understand what she was discussing. Or you choose to not know for political reasons.
Do you support the right of some people to marry animals and use them in intimate ways?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
OK, busted. I have intimate relationship with my pets. I let them kiss me on the lips (though I use the sani-wipes after when they aren’t looking)
… and sometimes I nuzzle them on their bellies.
But if you knew my pets you would do it too!
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
In other words you feel if a person desires to use an animal for sexual pleasures, the act should be allowed, even to the extent of allowing a marriage. Your allowing your pets to lick your face is hardly the same and you should feel ashamed for pretending there is no difference.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Alphalpha, post 89 … it is you who does not understand what she was discussing. She clearly equated homosexual relationships to bestiality (not to mention incest and pedophilia).
As far as whether I support a man marrying livestock, no I do not.
I do support a man marrying a man, or a woman marrying a woman. I suspect you do not. I imagine, the idea repulses you, as obviously it does Ms. Rowland.
… Just as the idea of interracial marriage repulsed some people decades ago (and no doubt some bigots still feel the same today; they just don’t dare come out and say it).
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
GJ Bubba,
My, you do have an imagination don’t you? Try to think positive thoughts. Now why would you want to compare Christians to Nazis. Isn’t that sort of thing a little out of style. And here I thought you were a modern, progressive, freethinker type. I am dismayed that you would crawl back into the gutter again. But I am sure Jesus forgives you. Well, come to think of it, like I can’t speak for Janet Rowland’s husband and attorney, I can’t speak for Jesus either. Maybe you should be worried. I hear he is all grown up now.
Again I am shocked and dismayed. But I am also confused. Which one is not your President, George Herbert Walker or as I refer to him GW? But I know how you feel. My President just died. Maybe you just heard about him? Chuck Heston, of from my cold dead fingers fame. Did you hear he could part the waters. With just a little help from that guy you may have made angry at you. Boy, I sure hope not. That would be a terrible thing to behold. Take my advice. Don’t take any chances. If we get thunder storms, just stay inside. That’s a good boy.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
alphalpha: “In other words you feel if a person desires to use an animal for sexual pleasures, the act should be allowed, even to the extent of allowing a marriage.”
WHAT?!
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 4:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash,
Oh my gosh, Ash, don’t you know what your pet was licking just before you kissed them. Get the iodine, get the alcohol. Ash has been kissed by dog lips.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 5:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, madam, since you seem to be of the mind that there should be no lines drawn anywhere, and since you tried to laugh off my “intimate relationship” question as the same as your pets licking your face, you basically agreed that there be no limits on any sexual relationships, including relations with animals. I think the Ms. Beastiality label is somehow misplaced.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 5:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP - You’re beginning to bore me - time for me to join some friends for hors d’oeuvres, cocktails and genteel conversation at the Country Club. Talk to you later.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 5:04 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Alphalpha, you are just dead wrong. Your logic skills are a zero on a scale of 1-10 if the above is any indication.
AP — too funny! I think of Lucy in Peanuts when Snoopy kissed her too.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 5:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
No ma’am, you placed a label on a Lady. Yet your own comments indicate that there should be no lines anywhere, and THAT was the point Mrs. Rowland was making. There should be lines drawn, but obviously, in your opinion, somewhere past sexual relations with animals. Did you label her as Ms. Polygamist? That was mentioned first. Or Ms. group sex?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 5:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Because I think a man in a loving relationship with another man should be able to marry, I therefore also believe there are no lines anywhere? Wrong, alpha. That is YOUR putrid reasoning. Not mine.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 5:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Madam, you chose to slander another human being for taking a position against unlimited marriage of any type with any number of participants.
Your own remarks indicated that you have no problems with any type of relationship. YOU are the true “Ms. Bestiality”!
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
OK to make it clear for alphalpha, who apparently has a need to fabricate and declare what I personally believe:
I am adamantly opposed to polygamy, incest, bestilality, pedophelia, necrophelia, etc.
Unlike Ms. Rowland, however, I DO NOT equate gay marriage with all or any of the above.
You can keep making up and declaring what I believe if it amuses you, but I am done. I do not have time to argue with a glob of play-doh.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
So? I take it that it’s ok to play the name calling game as long as it never comes back to haunt you? I find that to be so true, call somebody a name, but when the same name is shown to fit, it’s suddenly a bad thing. Is Ash what is generally referred to as a liberal?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:06 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey Ash,
Wanna make a bet that a_p and alphaalpha are sitting at the same keyboard?
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:07 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh, that’s alphalpha, sorry.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc-
Wrong. Dead Wrong. I disagree with A_P on a lot of things. Hell, most things. But he is not the type to make up a new name to fight his battles.
Guess again. And the first two that don’t rhyme with “Phyllis” don’t count.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:11 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc, an astute observation. AP has cloned himself. That is the only logical explanation.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash,
Hey Ash. Take the bet. I’ll split the money with you. Sorry dc, but it ain’t me.
And a word to Ash, I read Janet’s quote entirely differently than you do. I don’t think she was equating anything. I think she was just saying that she couldn’t figure out a way of doing one without doing the other, legally. I have never discussed this particular issue with her, but I will bet that was her thinking. I am not sure how it would work legally, but I am pretty sure someone would come along and press the issue, but what do I know. I am just a hate-monger.
PS I know there are ways around it, but I will try to calm the speculation by being up at the same time as alphaalpha.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AP, you do seem to have a better sense of humor than alpha — I was just thinking it might be a rude, mush-brained alter ego … sorry
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:20 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Nope, wasn’t me.
I do see the humor in it though.
Alfalpha left out a few mr bestialities though.
I wouldn’t have.
I agree with American_Patriots version.
If you allow one thing to happen, eventually, you are going to get stuck with a whole bunch of stuff going on.
Marriage doesn’t belong to the government anyway.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:21 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curmudgeon,
It isn’t me Curmie, I give you my word. But I will have to say this. I considered it a compliment that some thought it was. That was a piece of work. I don’t know if alpha is for real. I hope so, I could use the help. My first thought was it was Proteus again, but I ruled that out right away. That is the problem. You never know who the hell you are talking to. That is except for you, Curmie. Have I ever told you that I find myself somehow strangely attracted to you.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash,
I am in favor of shacking up. It is hard on the kids, but just look at all the legal turmoil and strife we could avoid.
And what happens to GJBubba in the sheep pen should stay in the sheep pen. I sure as hell don’t want to hear about it.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:30 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
A_P-
I knew it wasn’t you. Not your style.
And don’t feel weird; most people who are attracted to me find it strange.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:33 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
For those who say “if you allow a man to marry a man, where does it stop?”
Well it stops where it always stopped! At two committed, consenting, non-related adults.
I don’t see how one can reason that gay marriage negates all of the laws against marrying your sheep, or your cousin, or your 12-year old neighbor, or six of your best friends …
UNLESS one thinks gay marriage is immoral and equates it with all of the latter examples.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
AlphaAlpha - Be cautious about the names. The way you are going, you may just overtake Willis for the title of Village Idiot. Now, if the Village Idiot were to cross-breed with Ms. Bestiality, what would that produce?
On a more serious note, just what do you believe? Are you against gay marriage, abortion, equality for women, you know, all those insidious liberal ideas that threaten the very fabric of our ‘christian nation’? And, of course, racial equality might even be a subject upon which you could weigh in. Go for it, show us what you really are and quit the pedantic sniping.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey Ash. damoron is wanting you to bear his child.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
blubberboy already has the village idiot title sewn up solid.
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:38 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Everybody just calm down, while Willis goes and..uh…lets Alphalpha in. Yeah, that’s the ticket….
Posted August 13th, 2008 at 6:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I didn’t do it Curmie.
Whoever it is has a bead on Ash for some reason. Or that’s what it looks like to me.