“The bottom line is that grazers and browsers do in fact compete for the same food, at least under certain circumstances.” That is a significant change from your statement in post #5.

A graduate degree in biology does not a scientist make as demonstrated by your unfamiliarity with the objective viewpoint that science requires.

Am undergraduate degree in biology does not a scientist make as demonstrated by your unfamiliarity with the language of science. Scientists nearly always talk in terms of “suggest” and “may”. Rarely does a scientist talk in terms of absolutes because science does not work this way. As Donald Prothero puts it in his book Evolution: “Scientific hypotheses must always be tentative and subject to further testing and can never be regarded as finally true or proven. science is not about finding final truth, only about testing and refining better and better hypotheses so these hypotheses approach what we think is true about the world.” The bottom line is that grazers and browsers do in fact compete for the same food, at least under certain circumstances.

Neither of the papers you cite would be accepted as having any relevance in the areas that you were talking about earlier. It does demonstrate that you have a moderate competence with Google.

“The Oregon state study simply disproves your statement. Their conclusion was: Our results SUGGEST that intra- and interspecific dietary competition MAY exist among mule deer, elk and cattle during the summer in secondary succession grand fir vegetation types” Are the terms “suggest” and “may” words that are used to “disprove” any hypothesis?

I notice that you ignored the following statements from the paper that do not agree with your opinion. “Because of their anatomical and digestive attributes, mule deer were expected to have a more selective diet and choose higher quality forages than elk or cattle (Hofmann 1988). Mule deer switched their diet the least of the three herbivores in response to previous grazing by cattle or elk. This lack of flexibility in their diet could result in increased competition with elk or cattle in areas that have high ungulate or cattle densities or low forage production. Kie et al. (1991) concluded that competition between cattle and mule deer was highest during years of below-average precipitation. Austin and Urness (1986), however, concluded that deer and cattle did not compete for forage in their study area as deer use increased.” Or as a side note, “Prior cattle grazing can have beneficial effects on elk nutrition” which is opposite of your earlier opinions. I see a lot variables that need further research before any conclusion can be drawn.

Yes, my undergraduate degree was in biology. And I know enough that anyone who selects data to match their agenda is not a scientist no matter how many initials they have after their name.

Here’s a classic test that shows the true potential of a persons capabilities.

” Willis_Leon_Johnson
Posted August 15th, 2008 at 3:34 pm PM This User Report this comment

typical of the generic brand of intellectual genius of the liberal folks on here.

” Nope, I do not have that problem at all. At the age of 74, I am 6 ft, 170 lbs and ride 5 miles a day on my bicycle. Although you are younger than I, I will take you on in any running or bicycling race at any time just to see which of us has to run to the bathroom first. That is if you think you can get out of your wheelchair. ”

So, you think you can outrun a person hooked to Oxygen 24/7, and spends a goodly amount of time in a wheelchair?
I doubt it moron.
________________________________________

• Classof52
Posted August 15th, 2008 at 3:34 pm PM This User Report this comment

WLJ: “You finally made it to nearly 75 now? Well congrats OLD man.”
Yep! Now about that bicycle race… Let’s see who is really an OLD man.
Don’t tell me you are going to chicken out? ”

Now, if one was to merely scroll past it to get to the ’smart retort’ box, major details would be missed, or ignored.

And that would make their ’smart retort’ come out totally retarded and ignorant sounding.

But, then again, it is the classless old fool.

It is true, you get what you pay for, and I never paid a dime to view his comical activities.

Well first of all your statement was not restricted to any particular ecosystem. You said flatly:“Also, livestock do not compete with deer for food, deer browse while livestock graze. Two different food sources.”

The Oregon state study simply disproves your statement. Their conclusion was:

“Our results suggest that intra- and interspecific dietary competition may exist among mule deer, elk and cattle during the summer in secondary succession grand fir vegetation types”

So who is it that cannot read a scientific paper? Are you in fact a scientist?

Neither of these studies address the ecosystem on the western slope.

Have someone explain the data on page 11 of the first study to you. It demonstrates the difference between a grazer and a browser.

Then have someone read the second study to you and have them explain to you that there are no white tail deer on the western slope.

Do your homework or stay home!

There is an old saying ’statistics never lie, but class always lies’.

Maybe that’s a paraphrase, but it’s close.

This is an urban myth (rural myth?) which ranchers love to perpetuate. It is not true. There are literally hundreds of scientific studies which show that competition for the same food sources exists. References to just two of these are given below. The bottom line is that the more cattle grazing, the less food will be available for deer and elk.

http://oregonstate.edu/dept/eoarcunion/documents/Dietcompositiondrymatterintakeanddietoverlapofmuledeerelkandcattle.pdf

http://wildlife.tamu.edu/publications/TAEXWildlife/WILDPUBS/A080.PDF

I would go with Diminished Capabilities.