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I disagree with the experts that the West Slope Independents will carry Colorado for Sen. Obama, as stated in the Sept. 12 edition of The Daily Sentinel. Western voters are independent thinkers and I seriously doubt that they are going to overwhelmingly vote for Obama.
He has absolutely no idea of the problems and needs of the Rocky Mountain States, including the West Slope. Democrats John and Ken Salazar and Gov. Bill Ritter were elected, not because there is a shift to the Democratic Party. The Democrats simply fielded candidates who were more closely related to the interests and needs of all Colorado citizens.
The late movie actor Brandon DeWilde (The Boy in the movie Shane) described Hollywood as “ALL FRONT and NO BACK!” That is how I personally view Sen. Obama, “All front and no back.” Like Hollywood, he puts on a good performance and talks a good talk, but there isn’t much substance behind the scenes.
NEAL A. WARD
Delta
139 Responses to “Obama is ‘all front and no back’”
Posted September 13th, 2008 at 12:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ward: “He has absolutely no idea of the problems and needs of the Rocky Mountain States, including the West Slope. Democrats”
Right! Let’s elect a politician who really understands the needs of Western Colorado like John McCain so that he can immediately give all of our water away to Arizona and California when he renegotiates the water pact as he stated!
As far as “all front and no back” I wil take the substance of an honors graduate from Harvard any day over the “substance” of a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy who finished 5th from the bottom of a class of more than 800.
Posted September 13th, 2008 at 12:55 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
And don’t forget that McCain was a perpetual screw-up and destructer of millions of dollars of expensive military equipnent until he got “patriot religion” in prison followed by a period of womanizing afterwards. Doesn’t sound like much depth there. Yes, he became a respectable Senator espousing some enviable ideals. Now, running for President, he has trashed all that and is running a very ugly campaign based on lies and superficiality. I think Obama has much more depth and “back” and has a genuine interest in trying to improve the lives of all Americans, not just those at the very top of the income stratosphere. I’ll take intellect over deceitful manipulation any day.
Posted September 13th, 2008 at 4:18 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Makes me wonder what the letter writer thinks the most pressing needs and interests of Colorado citizens, in general.
The one time McCain broached the issue of water rights during this campaign, he sure stepped in the proverbial pile of you-know-what.
Posted September 13th, 2008 at 5:11 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
as if any politico is any different?
Posted September 13th, 2008 at 10:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Gee I somehow managed to make it to the age of 74 without becoming cynical about all politicians. I wonder how I got so lucky?. Having recently finished a four volume account of Lincoln’s political career as well as a book about his cabinet (composed of his former political rivals so he would not be surrounded by “yes men”), it is clear to me that some in political life are true statespeople who have the welfare of their fellow man in mind and are not simply politicians. So far, that is the way that I size Sen. Obama up.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 8:33 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Gee, Classof52, I’m about 20 years your junior and already burned out and cynical on politics! All politicians (as I see them) have to put up a front to get elected. That’s why it’s more accurate to size up a candidate after their term in office than before they get in. I learned that four years after voting for Jimmy Carter.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 10:08 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Obama is smart. Obama was a good student at a prestigious institution. Obama is a very good orator. And that’s it. Democrats claim that this makes him qualified to be president. The foolishness of this claim is not being purchased by the majority of the citizens of this country.
The man won his election to the Senate by defeating a radio host who was installed as the opposition candidate because Republicans could not find anyone qualified to run in that election. He has been in the senate for less than 4 years and for most of that time he has been campaigning rather than legislating. He has done nothing of merit in the Senate. Nothing. He has not shown a desire of any kind to work for compromise by working with Senators on the other side of the aisle.
The man is not ready to be president. Maybe after he completes the rest of this senate term, and the first two years of his next term, he will be better qualified.
The liberals on this blog are fully aware of Obama’s weaknesses but they will hide it because the only thing that matters to them is to win the White House.
But liberals in today’s mold have never won the White House and they won’t this time either. The fact that they could not beat Gerge W., who they consider to be the worst president in history, and the fact that they are behind in the polls now in an envirronment where the Democrat should be up double digits, shows that they have no clue what the American people want.
And thank goodness for that ignorance.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 10:21 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, what does it say about the super-duper-we’re-in-charge-and-the-majority-really-agrees-with-us Republicans that the best thing McCain can do for his campaign is to DISTANCE HIMSELF from his own President? Are you so sure the Republicans are so beloved in the whole country, or are you just counting yard signs in Grand Junction?
The race is closer than Democrats expected, or wanted, yes. Just wait until we hear more from Sarah Palin when Karl Rove’s hand isn’t stuck in her back. If Charlie Gibson’s softballs are being called ‘mean-spirited’, and ‘biased’, what in the heck is she going to do in a debate?
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 10:32 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
BFrog: “But liberals in today’s mold have never won the White House and they won’t this time either.”
I guess BFrog fogot about the 8 years of the Clinton presidency and the fact that more people voted for Al Gore than George W. Bush. I think BFrog is desperately trying to convince himself that he is right about the upcomong election. We shall see.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 10:39 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Of, course, when Obama was ahead, that was just “biased polling”; now that McCain has a lead, why, It’s a LANDSLIDE!!
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 10:47 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Good point, Curm.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 10:49 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
So Says BFrog: “He has done nothing of merit in the Senate. Nothing.”
Nothing??????? How about the following:
Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.
As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world’s supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.
Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories.
He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.
Obama worked with Russ Feingold (D–WI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the “Honest Leadership and Open Government Act”, which was signed into law in September 2007.
He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.
Obama also introduced the “Iraq War De-Escalation Act”, a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.
Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.
joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.
Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said “shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
Also how about the following:
** First legislation, the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100, and later joined Senator Kennedy on the Higher Education legislation that passed July 20, by a vote of 78-18. That legislation also included funding for Predominantly Black Colleges to assist with counseling, tutoring and other needs of low income students. It also creates the Teaching Residency Act which will create a school-based teacher preparation program in high needs schools to provide each teacher with a mentor, content instruction, classroom management skills, a master’s degree and state certification, and a 2 year follow-up program.
**The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
is an act that requires the full disclosure of all entities or organizations receiving federal funds beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2007 on a website maintained by the Office of Management and Budget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Funding_Accountabi…
**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department’s ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.
Signed into Law on January 11, 2007.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/chrisblas…
**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/53_17/news/19664-1.html?…
http://www.commonblog.com/story/2007/9/14/164837/331
** The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-2125
** S116 - Summer Learning demonstration project to provide summer learning grants and encourage new teaching methods.
http://www.pasesetter.org/demonstrationPrograms/nasd.ht…
and this one, moved out of committee just a few days ago:
Obama’s Global Poverty Act of 2007, passed out of committee just a few days ago
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Congressman Adam Smith (D-WA) today hailed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee’s passage of the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. This legislation was introduced in December. Smith and Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House last September.
http://obama.senate.gov /
Amendments, that have all passed:
S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.
S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.
S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.
S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.
S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.
S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.
S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.
S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.
S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.
S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans
S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 12:17 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“Obama is smart. Obama was a good student at a prestigious institution. Obama is a very good orator. And that’s it.”
Better than being a blah student at a prestigious institution that one’s daddy buys you into, and a bumbling embarrassment when speaking in public.
I would not “misunderestimate” the benefit of intellect in a leader. Compared to what we’ve had, it would be heavenly.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 1:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“bitter” small-town Americans “cling to guns or religion”
“A pig with lipstick is still a pig.”
We are not talking about the bright bulb out there.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 1:56 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sullivan,
Those are minor points, but good ones. How about the fact he attended and supports a college, Columbia University, that hasn’t allowed the ROTC since 1968. Yet they invited one of our enemies, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to speak there. So who does he really support, our military, or our enemy? I think that is a fair question.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 2:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
And yes, both Obama and McCain oppose the idea that Columbia doesn’t allow the ROTC. McCain also had a daughter that graduated from there too. (Have to be fair and balance you know).
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 2:06 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
If McCain supports it the idea, too, why’d you use it as an excuse to slime Obama?
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 2:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
tasha: Do you REALLY think Obama “supports the enemy” because he went to Columbia?
(I am not sure how he “supports” the university, maybe donating to his Alumni Association like millions of other people do, but anyway …)
Should we round up everyone who attended Columbia for questioning? Maybe put them on a no-fly list, that sort of thing?
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 2:40 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash - The comment served its purpose. First, throw out a ridiculous “question” as to whether Obama “supports the enemy” based on his COLLEGE.
Then, a clarification “to be fair” that McCain supports the same college. But, his daughter went there, not him, so it’s not like McCain supported the enemy. Just his daughter.
Absolute, total crap.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 2:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
P.S. tasha, I do appreciate your trying to be fair (in post 15).
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 2:47 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh yeah Curmudgeon, I know. I suppose the answer from many will be not that’s not the ONLY reason they think he “supports the enemy.”
There is his middle name for example, and many other things, true or not!
But I did appreciate tasha pointing out that Obama does not support Columbia’s ROTC policy.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 3:07 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Right. That’s the idea. Throw enough ridiculous, baseless stuff out there that those ‘great minds’ can latch onto, to justify their foaming-at-the-mouth anger at a man who’s done nothing to them, and to cover up the one great, glaring reason that he scares the living bejeezus out of them.
Meanwhile, the NY Times today ran a nice little story on McCain’s ’secret weapon”…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 4:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc,
Randi Rhodes use to work for Air America. She was first suspended for calling Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary “F W’s” during a stand-up comedy act in San Francisco. Then she resigned after being asked by the network to apologize for her inflammatory remarks against Ferraro and Clinton. Air America had paid her way to S.F. and was advertised as “Air America Randi Rhodes”. She did not represent them like she was suppose to do. I think they were going to fire her anyhow.
Ash,
Obama’s middle name means nothing to me. It is just a name.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 4:56 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
In response to Bfrogs comment that Obama has accomplished nothing during his time in the Senate, I have been attempting all day to post a list of those accomplishments during his time in the Senate which in fact are quite impressive. However, the censorship accompanying this forum simply will not let me post it. Seems somebody does not want the truth to come out.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 5:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
yeah, class…it’s a conspiracy at the setinel that won’t allow all of the accomplishments of a junior senator posted to the boards…(i’m rolling my eyes right about now) ;D
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 5:12 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curm: Ash - The comment served its purpose. First, throw out a ridiculous “question” as to whether Obama “supports the enemy” based on his COLLEGE.
Then, a clarification “to be fair” that McCain supports the same college. But, his daughter went there, not him, so it’s not like McCain supported the enemy. Just his daughter.
Absolute, total crap.
Got you fired up, didn’t it. Yes I threw out that question and just to see what kind of a response I would get. But this is what I get and no answer. So to make you happy, I’ll ask the same about McCain, referring to the same question. That should be an interesting response!
You know I just don’t trust Obama, and I have a right to have that feeling. But it doesn’t matter. I guess sliming McCain is ok though, right?
BTW, I feel that, ANYONE that supports an organization that invites our enemy to speak at a function here in America, is wrong. Now did Obama or McCain have a problem with this, I don’t know, do you?
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 5:18 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Class,
Why wouldn’t the Sentinel allow you to post accomplishments about Obama. I find that quite curious. Yep it’s a conspiracy hitekredneck.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 5:22 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
tasha -
“Got you fired up”
“Just threw it out to see what kind of response”
Sure, you did. And here, I thought Willis was the only one to post ridiculous accusations and then backpedal furiously, using the “Got you fired, up, huh? Just testing” response when people called them on it.
Glad to see you’re taking up the slack while he’s gone.
Go ahead, toss some more. Maybe Obama’s “Muslim Heritage” next time?? But have the guts to stand behind it.
Just don’t post garbage and then say, “just kiddin’” when someone calls it crap. A bag of crap on a doorstep is joke, sure..but it’s still a bag of crap.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 5:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Class -
No. That’s absurd. What purpose would it serve for the Sentinel to ‘censor’ something like that? It’s not like it would suddenly change everyone’s minds, right?
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 5:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curm,
The question I threw out was for real, no testing. I never said I was kidding, where did I say that. And don’t accuse me of taking up Willis slack. I find that way out of line. I speak for myself, nobody else, and if you have a problem with it, deal with it. Just like I deal with yours!
“It’s not like it would suddenly change everyone’s minds, right”?
Wouldn’t change my mind about Obama, no matter what you would write about his accomplishments.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 5:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
What would it take to change your mind? Or is that just out of the question?
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 5:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I think that last line says it all, doesn’t it, dc?
“Wouldn’t change my mind about Obama, no matter what you would write about his accomplishments”.
Okie dokie, then. So, if it’s not about his qualifications, or experience, it’s got to be something about him as a *person*, right? I mean, logically, what else could it be? What *could* it be about, then, I wonder? I wonder…
No, I don’t wonder.
A predictable, but pretty limp defense would be to say that it’s because “what you write about his accomplishments might not be true” or something to that effect. But that would be pretty lame.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 6:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
curmudgeon, i personally couldn’t tell you exactly why i don’t trust obama tbh…it’s something in his personality i find akin to a used car salesman
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 6:31 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
hite - Okay, I’ll buy that. It’s an honest response. Some people don’t trust people who are, in their opinion, ’smooth talkers’ (it’s one of the reasons Bush won, as a matter of fact…people equated his being inarticulate with being “honest”). And, after the last ‘charismatic’ President we had, I can see that. But, would that be “no matter what his accomplishments were”? Or would a candidate’s experience and accomplishments balance out the “slick” factor?
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 6:51 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
tbh i couldn’t tell you…i’ve not seen any of his accomplishments, and don’t really know if it would balance it out or not…some of it is that he doesn’t hold to my type of ideals…i understand using diplomacy for more than we do, but don’t see the sense of doing that with terrorist sponsoring nations like libya “used” to be…(i suspect they still are)…nor do i like his tax hikes on anybody making more than 250k a year, because that directly impacts the majority of small business, which in truth drives our economy
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 7:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I don’t know Hitek,
can you substantiate the 250K number as representing most small business? Seems to me taxable income for most of the small business I know are less. Besides, I believe it is the people who buy from the small business that need the biggest break. McCain does almost nothing for them.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 7:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
hite,
You said;
“nor do i like his tax hikes on anybody making more than 250k a year, because that directly impacts the majority of small business, which in truth drives our economy”
Ok I am a dummy how does this work?
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 7:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
simple, rm….if you look at the majority of citizens making over 250k, it’s due to them owning a small business…those small business owners will only pass the tax hikes on to us, the consumers…
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 7:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hite,
Now I understand your position. Couldn’t the tax hike on these $250k + people have the opposite affect?(Options 3 & 4) They have basically four options:
1. Raise prices to increase their profit in order to cancel out the increase in taxes. Except you can’t do this unilaterally in a free market system because of competition and your competitor’s trying to get some of your market share.
2. Hire a better tax adviser to come up with some creative workarounds in order to lower your tax exposure.
3. Be inspired to increase your profits by providing better service, better product, and lower prices in order to increase you market share.
4. Accept a lower standard of living and be comforted in the fact that you did the right thing by voting for Obama. The higher standard of living was probably not making you happy anyway.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 7:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc: What would it take to change your mind? Or is that just out of the question?
Why are you so determined to change my mind?
Curm: I think that last line says it all, doesn’t it, dc?
“Wouldn’t change my mind about Obama, no matter what you would write about his accomplishments”.
I already said in another forum why I won’t vote for Obama. But just for you curm I’ll say it again. I don’t like some of his policies, I don’t agree hikes on the upper elite. I find him having the attitude, take from the rich and give to the poor is wrong. I feel he wants more government involvement if out lives. I don’t agree with him wanting to meet with the enemy without precondition. I think he is no different than any other politician. Say what ever to get elected. No different for McCain.
hitekredneck: simple, rm….if you look at the majority of citizens making over 250k, it’s due to them owning a small business…those small business owners will only pass the tax hikes on to us, the consumers…
It’s been that way forever for any business. That’s part of survival.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 7:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
rm, if the people would go that way, it would be fine…but face it, people dontt like going backwards with income…the workarounds you mention are one thing i find extremely troubling with our tax code…those “workarounds” as you call them do nothing but make everybody else take up the slack for those qualifying for the breaks…as for option #1, that’s the most likely scenario, and it will happen across the board.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 7:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Obama accomplishments in the senate where he wrote 890 bills and cosponsored 1,096 more
** First legislation, the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100, and later joined Senator Kennedy on the Higher Education legislation that passed July 20, by a vote of 78-18. That legislation also included funding for Predominantly Black Colleges to assist with counseling, tutoring and other needs of low income students. It also creates the Teaching Residency Act which will create a school-based teacher preparation program in high needs schools to provide each teacher with a mentor, content instruction, classroom management skills, a master’s degree and state certification, and a 2 year follow-up program.
**The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
is an act that requires the full disclosure of all entities or organizations receiving federal funds beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2007 on a website maintained by the Office of Management and Budget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Funding_Accountabi…
**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department’s ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.
Signed into Law on January 11, 2007.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/chrisblas…
**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/53_17/news/19664-1.html?…
http://www.commonblog.com/story/2007/9/14/164837/331
** The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-2125
** S116 - Summer Learning demonstration project to provide summer learning grants and encourage new teaching methods.
http://www.pasesetter.org/demonstrationPrograms/nasd.ht…
and this one, moved out of committee just a few days ago:
Obama’s Global Poverty Act of 2007, passed out of committee just a few days ago
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Congressman Adam Smith (D-WA) today hailed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee’s passage of the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. This legislation was introduced in December. Smith and Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House last September.
http://obama.senate.gov /
Amendments, that have all passed:
S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.
S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.
S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.
S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.
S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.
S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.
S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.
S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.
S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.
S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans
S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 8:20 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
C52, some of your links appear to be broken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Funding_Accountabi…
result: Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/chrisblas…
result: ERROR: invalid page requested
http://www.pasesetter.org/demonstrationPrograms/nasd.ht…
result: The page cannot be found
Beyond that,
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-2125
Sponsored by Obama, what does the bill contain?
http://obama.senate.gov / Global Poverty Act (S.2433)
And we are going to pay for this how?
S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.
Sounds like an earmark, AKA pure, good old boy, Illinois pork
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 8:34 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha,
“I don’t like some of his policies, I don’t agree hikes on the upper elite.”
Do I take it then that you are a “free market economist” and a follower of Milton Friedman and a devotee of Reaganomics?
“I find him having the attitude, take from the rich and give to the poor is wrong.”
OK, So you don’t admire Robin Hood. That is OK for you. Not for me. I am a hillbilly from eastern Kentucky and my parents live in mobile homes. I remember being poor.
“I feel he wants more government involvement if out lives.”
Very Well. How about we let the government dictate our religion, our reproductive freedom, and keep dossiers on us for the DHS. For starters.
“I don’t agree with him wanting to meet with the enemy without precondition.”
That is your right, even though I have to tell you that attitude can be adjusted with a healthy dose of the truth about world politics.
“I think he is no different than any other politician. Say what ever to get elected. No different for McCain.”
We have been discussing ethics here for a long time. We will continue to do so. McCain has proven himself to be willing to stoop very low to win this election. But, what do you expect? His campaign is being run by White House lobbyists.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 9:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“OK, So you don’t admire Robin Hood. That is OK for you. Not for me. I am a hillbilly from eastern Kentucky and my parents live in mobile homes. I remember being poor.”
I grew up very poor also. And to be honest, I’m not rich today. But stealing, (and I do call it stealing) from one to give to another, still don’t make it right. Why should someone work there butts off to gain a higher standard of living, then have someone come along and say, we are going to take some of your hard earned extra money and give it to the ones who are too lazy or not able to meet their own style of living? I find that a little hard to swallow. But that’s my opinion.
Correction; This is want I meant to say, I feel he wants more government involvement in our lives. Not if out. I had a talk with my keyboard on that one. LOL
But I don’t understand your response to that, “Very Well. How about we let the government dictate our religion, our reproductive freedom, and keep dossiers on us for the DHS. For starters.”
I don’t want more government in my life, to lose more freedoms, no thank you.
“We have been discussing ethics here for a long time. We will continue to do so. McCain has proven himself to be willing to stoop very low to win this election.” And Obama hasn’t been? All Politicians do!!
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 9:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sorry, last post directed to dc.
Posted September 14th, 2008 at 11:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
BFrog: “He has done nothing of merit in the Senate. Nothing.”
Nothing??????? How about the following: (first half already posted)
Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.
As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world’s supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.
Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories.
He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.
Obama worked with Russ Feingold (D–WI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the “Honest Leadership and Open Government Act”, which was signed into law in September 2007.
He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.
Obama also introduced the “Iraq War De-Escalation Act”, a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.
Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.
joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.
Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said “shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 7:15 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
But class….?
” Classof52
Posted June 5th, 2008 at 9:12 am PM This User Report this comment
BullishFrog: I have tried to enter my source for the statistics I quoted on Anwar but, for some reason, they don’t get posted. Anyway, you can google “Anwar Drilling” and go to the Wikepedia website.
Unfortunately the Wikipedia site is not an authoritative one.
The articles there are contributed by anyone who takes the time to post one and can be modified by anyone.
There have been many instances of false or wrong information posted on that site.
I sometime use it to initially get information which leads me to other sites, but I would never cite Wikipedia (or blogs like World Nut Daily) as a primary source of data.
So I would say that your data are suspect until or unless you can get us a confirming reference from a real source. ”
You quoted what ’source’ repeatedly in this thread?
In June wikerpedier was all a bunch of made up, unreliable stuff, and now, as if by magic, everything from thee is etched in stone truth?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 10:26 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
When it is opinion that is being discussed, then I agree that Wikipedia cn be a biased source. The material I posted however is not opinion but a factual record of accomplishments. In this instance Wikipedia is a convenient accumulation of this particular information. Any of these congresional bills which were posted can be checked out individually by consulting the congressional record, Using a favorite WLJ line, I don’t intend to do your homework for you. I challenge anyone to show that any of the posted information, (for which I gave a source) about Obama’s congressional record is not correct.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 10:54 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
“Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.”
The man has been in the Senate for 3 1/2 years, of which nearly 2 years have been spent on the stump. So as an active senator, he has been in Washington for 2 years. That’s 104 weeks or 520 working days. And over those 520 days (which include a lot of day spent away traveling), according to Class, he has written or cosponsored 1,986 bills. That’s almost 4 bills per working day. Pretty amazing. Only a real messiah could accomplish such a feat. And, I don’t think Class even included the most famous bill he wrote where he asked that the start of the Senate’s lunch break be moved from 12 to 12:15 so the kitchen workers have a little extra time to find some fresh arugala.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I think it’s hilarious how people constantly try to paint Obama as a latte-sipping elitist (extra time for the arugula, and all that) when their Saint of the Common Man (who ditched his wife for an heiress) can’t even tell you how many houses he owns. Yeah, McCain is totally in sync with the common man. But hey, if Limbaugh or Hannity say it, it must be true, right?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:29 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Yeah Curm, amazing. Obama in an interview with Stephanopoulos, and his slip about, “his Muslim faith”. Or how about him saying, “I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go.” And you are worried about McCain and his houses.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:30 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Wow. I knew you’d throw the ‘Muslim’ card eventually, tasha.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:42 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Slimer still is the implication that if Obama were a Muslim, that would make him evil, unworthy, “for the enemy,” etc.
Anyway I’ll take meaningless mistakes in speaking (which everyone makes) over the premeditated lies of GWB, Palin, etc.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:47 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, for a lot of people, calling (on implying, oh-so-subtly) someone is a “Muslim” is akin to slapping a tuban on them and tucking a bomb under their arm. It’s stupid, simple-minded, and basically watered-down racism, but if watered-down racism is the only kind you can indulge in without being ‘outed’, I guess it works for some people. At least it does for Hannity, Limbaugh, and their loyal listeners.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I find it interesting how libs are demeaning McCain because he played around before his divorce. And yet, when the biggest presidential philanderer in American history, Bill Clinton, any mention of his affairs is castgated as being a personal matter. But why stop there, anybody heard of JFK?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:48 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Way to go curm. I did not throw in any card, but you go ahead and believe what ever you want.
BTW, was just watching the news. LOL Did anyone catch how he pronounce Ute? He said, (so you can get the drift) “Utay” The man can’t even say Ute correctly. Bet the crowd love that one, not. Yep he is so in touch!
Obaymay just insulted the Utay. LMAO
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash,
I only stated what Obama said. And you and curm what to excuse me of calling him a muslim. You really take the cake.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:52 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
correction; want to accuse
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:53 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
hey at least I corrected my self.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:54 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
And before you want to take a jump on my mistake in words, I was still laughing so hard about the Ute thing, just couldn’t think straight.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 11:55 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Hey, I’m no fan of Clinton, bullish…I’ve made that clear a dozen times. He demeaned his office, and I blame him in no small part for Bush being in office in the first place.
As for you, tasha…Wow. He mispronounced a name. Haw Haw.
At least hiteredneck can enumerate his opposition to the candidate pretty darn clearly, with a lot more substance than, “That feller, he’s dif’runt from us folks here”.
Haw Haw.
Yee-Haw, even.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 12:07 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
curm: At least hiteredneck can enumerate his opposition to the candidate pretty darn clearly, with a lot more substance than, “That feller, he’s dif’runt from us folks here”
You just keep assuming there curm. Try reading my post #40.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 12:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curm: “Hey, I’m no fan of Clinton, bullish”
Well, my friend, we have common ground here.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 12:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
probably more than you know, bullish…I keep saying I’m a moderate, which around here means “ain’t got the guts to commit fully to one dogma or the other”. Some days, I think I’m a Liberal Republican. Some days, I think I’m a Conservative Democrat. Most days, I’m just disappointed with whoever’s in charge.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 12:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curm, you are probably right. I consider myself a moderate (liberal on social issues, more conservative on economics and defense.)
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 12:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
By the way Curm, I consider Bill CLinton to be a moderate Democrat and I am pretty certain that if the Democrats had nominated a moderate Democrat they would have run away with this election.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 12:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ok class, which way do you want i?
” Unfortunately the Wikipedia site is not an authoritative one.
The articles there are contributed by anyone who takes the time to post one and can be modified by anyone.
There have been many instances of false or wrong information posted on that site. ”
That was June…
” When it is opinion that is being discussed, then I agree that Wikipedia cn be a biased source. The material I posted however is not opinion but a factual record of accomplishments. ”
That is now.
“I sometime use it to initially get information which leads me to other sites, but I would never cite Wikipedia (or blogs like World Nut Daily) as a primary source of data. ”
That was June…
“. Any of these congresional bills which were posted can be checked out individually by consulting the congressional record, ”
That is now…
” So I would say that your data are suspect until or unless you can get us a confirming reference from a real source. ””
That was June. (heavy emphasis on the ” your data are suspect until or unless you can get us a confirming reference from a real source “)
That was June.
” Using a favorite WLJ line, I don’t intend to do your homework for you. I challenge anyone to show that any of the posted information, (for which I gave a source) about Obama’s congressional record is not correct.”
***********
So, in other words, if someone uses wikerpedia, it is up to them to verify and post data from a reliable source to back up the claims made.
BUT, when you use wikerpedier, it up to the other person, NOT YOU, to verify the accuracy?
Interesting class, very interesting.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 12:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha: No you didn’t call Obama a Muslim (and I never said so), you just repeated his gaffe as if it held some deep significance. If you though it was meaningless you wouldn’t have posted it.
Willis: I don’t know if I have ever said you were right but there is a first time for everything! I was also surprised to see Class use Wiki as a source (only because he had trashed it in the past). Personally I would cite Wiki; as long as the source is identified then people can make their own choice about its validity, possible bias, etc. I have found it to be more accurate than most of what is out there, and often use it as a starting point for research but then double check everything against other sources.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 1:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash: No you didn’t call Obama a Muslim (and I never said so), you just repeated his gaffe as if it held some deep significance. If you though it was meaningless you wouldn’t have posted it.
Sorry ash, you are wrong in assuming that. I do not believe Obama is a Muslim. If I did, believe me, I would have said it long ago. Just because someone repeats something, doesn’t mean they believe it. I was just making a point about a his gaffe, and that is all.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 1:20 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
So, if you don’t believe something, why repeat it…unless, of course, it’s just a way to throw that word out there, AGAIN, and have an ‘excuse’ for doing so? “People have said this, (Insert latest slimeball accusation here), now, I don’t believe it, but it makes you think, doesn’t it?” Yeah, it makes me think, all right.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 1:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha, AGAIN I never said you believe Obama is a Muslim (and couldn’t care less if you do or don’t).
The point is, exactly what Curm just said. You pointed out the gaffe … WHY? It must hold some significance in your mind, that you felt it was so important to repeat.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 3:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha 53: “Way to go curm. I did not throw in any card, but you go ahead and believe what ever you want.
BTW, was just watching the news. LOL Did anyone catch how he pronounce Ute? He said, (so you can get the drift) “Utay” The man can’t even say Ute correctly. Bet the crowd love that one, not. Yep he is so in touch!
Obaymay just insulted the Utay. LMAO”
Here is a typical right wing lie achieved by only quoting part of actually what happened. I heard the entire speech (one of the best he has given in my opinion) and Obama immediately corrected his pronunciation of Ute. Why did you not note that Tasha? A little bias going on and a desire to find anything possibly wrong with the candidate no matter how minor?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 3:24 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
It’s not a “lie”, Class, it’s just an ‘incomplete truth’. If tasha had added the correction, then the ‘humorous’ line would have read:
Obaymay just insulted the Utay - I mean, Ute. LMAO
See? It ain’t as much of a knee-slapper, if the whole truth is told. Maybe an LOL, but certainly not an LMAO.
You can do it with many things.
“Obama did nothing to stop Hitler”
“Obama does not pay taxes” (well, he does once year, but not, you know, every month)
See? It’s funny!
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 3:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Interesting rally today, which none of our right wingers have seen fit to comment on except for the Tasha53 partial quote. We heard a good talk by our Democrat Governor Ritter, followed by a good talk by our Democrat Senator Salazar, followed by the Dem candidate for President who gave a magnificent hard fighting speech.
The most memorable lines for me were a recitation of McCains votes (in lockstep with Bush) against nearly every piece of legislation having to do with veterans benefits and his parade of endless votes (again in lockstep with Bush) against nearly every farm bill. I simply do not understand why some veterans and small farmers continue to support McCain against all of their economic and social interests.
Also memorable was a discussion of the serious stock market crisis today and the comment of MCCain this morning that the fundamentals of the economy are in good shape. The economic policies of the Bush administration, (fully supported by McCain), resulting in an unprecedented national debt, are now coming home to roost. McCain represents failed policy and would continue just this approach.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 3:38 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Wait, Class…I’ve got it. Tasha was too busy yukking it up at the HUGE gaff Obama made, and is such a quick-draw artist on the keyboard, that the comment got posted BEFORE he corrected himself. So, basically, tasha was telling the truth. Basically.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 3:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curm, I think you were right on with your elephant in the room comment earlier (post 22). The insane amount of fear and loathing we see toward Obama can not be explained by political differences alone.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 3:51 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curmudgeon: Tasha was too busy yukking it up at the HUGE gaff Obama made, and is such a quick-draw artist on the keyboard, that the comment got posted BEFORE he corrected himself. So, basically, tasha was telling the truth. Basically.
Try she, I’m not a he. Hence the name Tasha. Did you think I was making up the story about Obama not pronouncing Ute correctly. Yep I do believe you did.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 3:58 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash -
Remember, not everyone is like that. Please don’t discount the people who have justifiable, reasonable opposition to the man. He’s a Democrat, he’s a Liberal; plenty of reasons there without having to look too hard.
But the wild-eyed, foaming-at-the-mouth (or maybe it’s just half-chewed Moon Pies) hatred, and the disdain of his charisma and popularity, does make one wonder what’s behind it all, huh? Ideology does not breed this kind of contempt. I mean, I hate GWB, but I don’t TiVo every speech and go over it like the Zapruder film, looking for mispronounced words. I’d never have time to smart off….
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 3:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
oops. My mistake. “she”. Of course, you didn’t make up the story. But you only told that part of it that served your purpose.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:02 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Here is a left-wing newspaper’s view on Obama’s chance of winning the election. Guess they are starting to wise up about Obama.
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/thinkingright/entries/2008/09/12/panic_sets_in_for_obama_democr.html
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:07 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curmudgeon: But you only told that part of it that served your purpose.
Yes, so what. Like you don’t do that yourself, “when their Saint of the Common Man (who ditched his wife for an heiress) can’t even tell you how many houses he owns”.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:07 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
That’s entirely correct, tasha - The Atlanta Journal-Constitution could be called a “left wing” newspaper…of course, the column you cite is by their conservative columnist, hence the name of the column, “THINKING RIGHT”…do you see the contradiction in your assertion? No, of course not.
But, them’s the facts, tasha-style.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
tasha - that was a fact. McCain ditched his wife, for Cindy the heiress.
Prove me wrong. There is no “other part” to the story that I’m holding back. That’s it. He dumped his wife for a rich chick. And now he has so many houses, he can’t keep track. There’s no other part that I’m conveniently forgetting to mention. Do you see how that’s different?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Class: “Also memorable was a discussion of the serious stock market crisis today and the comment of MCCain this morning that the fundamentals of the economy are in good shape.”
Of course, Class is simply repeating this lie which he heard from Obama.
I heard what McCain said. He said the fundamentals of the economy were strong BUT we are currently in a deep crisis. By truncating the second half, he deliberately misquoted McCain. This is the same sort of lie that Obama repeated ad nauseum when he said McCain wanted to stay in Iraq for 100 years and then left out the rest of his statement.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Let me make it clear; if my swipe against McCain’s fidelity was a tasha-style post, I would have omitted some critical detail that somehow diminished, or even completely changed, the impact of the initial statement; like, if McCain’s first wife was an abusive drunk, or cheated on him, or something like that. That’s how it works.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:21 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curm: Well, I’ll be darn. I do stand corrected on the article. Goes to show you I’m big enough of a human being to admit I was wrong on that one. But I believe a lot of people are surprised to see it printed.
I never said McCain didn’t do or say what you posted. So I don’t have to prove you wrong on that. About the Obama and Ute thing, There was no more, I was only referring to the wrong pronouncing of the word. What am I holding back? I served my purpose just like you did. ???????????????
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
tasha -
I appreciate your correction on the article. Many people would not admit a mistake, even a small one like that.
You left out that Obama corrected himself immediately after the mistaken pronounciation. That’s all. Because to correct yourself would have diminished the impact of the mistake. That’s it.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:29 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
By the way, tasha -
If bullish’s account above is correct(and I have no reason to doubt him), Obama did exactly the same thing.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Curmudgeon: You left out that Obama corrected himself immediately after the mistaken pronounciation. That’s all. Because to correct yourself would have diminished the impact of the mistake. That’s it.
Ok I accept that to be a fair. I guess I should have stated he corrected himself. I watched the segment when he wrongly pronounced Ute. And you could tell by the expression on his face, he really wasn’t sure how to say it. All I’m saying, is he is running for president, he should know how to pronounce Ute.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
True but even qualified with “but we are in a crisis,” believing that the foundations of our economy are in good shape is laughable.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I saw the comment and I don’t remember him using the word crisis. Did I miss it?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
ooops referring to post 89 not 90.
Tasha, you should have heard me butcher “Uncompahgre” when I first moved here (no point, it was just amusing if you would have heard it)
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, it is for McCain. He’s got like, what, seven houses?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:45 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Okay, I’m just playing here, but,
Should a President know how to pronounce “Nuclear”?
’cause you know Bush doesn’t.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
” Okay, I’m just playing here, but,
Should a President know how to pronounce “Nuclear”?
’cause you know Bush doesn’t. ”
Okay, I’m just playing here, but,
Should a President know how many States there are?
’cause you know Obama doesn’t.
Ya just gotta love irony….
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
That’s not “ironic”. Check the dictionary.
And, he only made that mistake once. Bushie does it constantly. But thanks for injecting your Willis-ness into our discussion.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc - McCain actually said “but these are very difficult times,” I believe.
Willis, Obama knows how many states there are. Seizing on a one-time gaffe just as Tasha did.
Bush mispronounced nuclear hundreds if not thousands of times. He would never correct himself because he is a “frat boy” brat who would rather keep doing the wrong thing than admit he was ever wrong.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:56 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Naw curmie, the irony was your attacking President Bush for jerking your chain, and ignore the sheer stupidity of Obama not knowing how many States there are, and ignore the fact that a commentator has to remind him what religion he believes in.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Man, we were all having such a nice chat, here, too.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 4:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash: Tasha, you should have heard me butcher “Uncompahgre” when I first moved here (no point, it was just amusing if you would have heard it)
Yes, I’ve heard many people butcher it. Kinda goes with how some people pronounce Illinois.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
curmie, are you saying that I am not welcome to post on this site?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Come to think of it, it was pretty comical hearing a boy from New Orleans try to pronounce “Molybdenum” the first time I read it in class…
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:06 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc: Willis, Obama knows how many states there are. Seizing on a one-time gaffe just as Tasha did.
If you are going to make this kind of statement, then it’s only fair to do for all. Because everyone has done the same thing at some point in time.
And no I am not being touchy, just pointing out a fact.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Interesting that curmie got testy when I reappeared, then dropped the subject when called for his poor behavior.
And he still can’t pronounce Sauguache.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:10 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Poor behavior? What poor behavior? I dropped it because I didn’t feel like watching you smear Willis-ness all over the board, again.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:13 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha: “If you are going to make this kind of statement, then it’s only fair to do for all. Because everyone has done the same thing at some point in time.”
I honestly don’t think I have ever seized on a politician’s one time gaffe. It is not my style as I do not think these minor slip-ups actually mean anything (except that the speaker is human and not a robot).
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“Suh-watch” I believe it is. And, Tasha, are my initials “dc” in your post 104 for a reason or just a gaffe?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh, that’s different, I thought it was because you get so tired of being proven wrong by me so often that it hurts your feelings and makes you feel bad.
Your messiah is a moron that, without a teleprompter, says really stupid things that his handlers have to rush to cover up and expect the American People to believe that he just slipped a little.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
She was copying it from Ash’s post, I think.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:15 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well, that answers that question, dc and curmie are the same person.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:18 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Class: Here is a typical right wing lie achieved by only quoting part of actually what happened. I heard the entire speech (one of the best he has given in my opinion) and Obama immediately corrected his pronunciation of Ute. Why did you not note that Tasha? A little bias going on and a desire to find anything possibly wrong with the candidate no matter how minor?
It wasn’t a lie what I said, I just didn’t say he corrected himself. As far as being a little biased, well, I have seen plenty of biased opinions here, and a desire to find anything possibly wrong with the candidate no matter how minor. Don’t single me out, because you fit the description yourself.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I was the one mistaken for dc in post 104 but it was an honest typo or casualty of cut and paste, I am sure.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:26 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis: (post 109) “I thought it was because you get so tired of being proven wrong by me so often that it hurts your feelings and makes you feel bad.”
Directly taunting and belittling people is not necessary. I may sneer at someone’s opinion, but not the person who holds that opinion. Do you see the difference?
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc: “Suh-watch” I believe it is. And, Tasha, are my initials “dc” in your post 104 for a reason or just a gaffe?
I wrote dc: then posted what you said. Maybe the : confused you. Next time I’ll put, dc said.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:28 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha, I said what you quoted in post 104, not dc.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:31 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oh lord, ROF, oops.
Sorry dc.
thanks Ash
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:33 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’m in and out of the room where my computer is, doing chores, and just reading posts to quickly. My bad!
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I’s OK. I am usually guilty of skimming posts too quickly and posting too quickly myself
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
As reference to my post in 104, I should have said most people, not everyone.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 5:40 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ash,
Yeah, like my post #81, I felt like a fool after that one.
But I did admit to being wrong.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 6:17 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha,
I take no offense, in any way.
WLJ,
Nope, I did not realize it was a personal challenge. Besides, Curmudgeon seems awfully bright to me. I suspect he/she knew the answer.
Besides Willis,
One of the brightest men I ever met was my 10th grade biology teacher. He always said that the real test of intelligence is not to know everything, because that is impossible. Intelligence is demonstrated in learning to find the answer, not the knowing of it.
And then he taught us about evolution!
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 6:41 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Tasha53: “and a desire to find anything possibly wrong with the candidate no matter how minor. Don’t single me out, because you fit the description yourself.”
Well you are welcome to prove that assertion if you can. But I do not comment on such things as Bush’s mispronounciation of “nuclear”. I do not think it minor to note that McCain has voted against nearly all bills which would improve the benefits to veterans. These are the kind of things which resonate with me and which I comment on-not mispronounciations.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 6:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bfrog: “I heard what McCain said. He said the fundamentals of the economy were strong BUT we are currently in a deep crisis.
Here is the actual quote:
“You know that there’s been tremendous turmoil in our financial markets and Wall Street. And it is, it’s - people are frightened by these events. Our economy, I think, still, the fundamentals of our economy are strong but these are very, very difficult times. And I promise you, we will never put America in this position again. We will clean up Wall Street. We will reform government.”
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/did-mccain-economy-gaffe-prompt/story.aspx?guid=%7BAB97BD36-9F9C-4239-ABC9-6B9E89D5C194%7D&dist=msr_5
Where is the word “crisis” in this BFrog?????
Looks like BFrog is making things up again in the best traditions of the Repub Swift Boat and Karl Rove mode.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 8:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
I saw him on TV and was recalling from memory. The POINT, and you know it, is that Obama, and you, left out the part after “the fundamentals our economy are strong”. By doing so he misrepresented what McCain said. It was a lie and now you are trying to squiggle out of it. Don’t be a smart ass. You are not showing your class, class.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 9:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
bullishfrog,
I don’t know about you but I don’t think the fundamentals of our economy are strong. I see a desperate situation. In that respect I think it was proper for Senator Obama to call Senator McCain on his statement about the economy.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 10:31 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“The fundamentals of the economy are strong?” Whenever hearing this line, I have to wonder which economy they are speaking about. Where are such individuals getting their information? Must be straight from the White House. I don’t know what others listen to, but I like to listen to economists who have been in the ‘trenches’ for a long time, and not those who are still locked into the thinking they learned in their first college course one ‘finance’ or economics 101.
Perhaps they have not listened to Alan Greenspan recently, or they have not been listening to economics instructors from major universities. Even tonight on PBS a Harvard economist had to admit that while these ‘bailing’ our of Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, as well as the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the purchase of Merril Lynch by Bank of America are mere stop-gap measures. Eventually the American taxpayer will have to bail out not only those huge institutions,as well as many banks.
Come on folks! Let’s get real! Denying that the ‘economy is sound’ is just simple denial. So, let’s face up to it, dump those whose policies led us into this mess, one that began about thirty years ago and simply cannot admit that they were wrong. If they were wrong then, they are wrong now. Read a little history folks. You may end up with a little understanding of what is really happening.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 10:32 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Correction: The sentence should read. “Maintaining that the ‘economy is sound’ is just simple denial.
Posted September 15th, 2008 at 10:53 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
No one else seems to agree with you BFrog. Obama told it like it was. McCain later today tried to backtrack on his comment (squiggle out of it as you say) but it won’t wash. McCain is a defender of the past and of the corporate right wingers. Obama represents the future. y la verdad! Palabra!
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 12:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I am not going to try to act like I read all of these posts, or like I know exactly where each candidate stands. I am pretty much on the fence when it comes to the election, and I know that there are quite a few of you out there that have studied up on the candidates a lot more that I have. Now I’ll play the devil’s advocate on this one. I am pretty much in the middle at this point as the last two time I have voted when it came to platforms, it has had nothing to do with what I voted for. I have a family (which a lot of you have said that Obama will raise taxes on) and my wife and I are going to college (which he says he will make a major issue if he becomes president), now which would benifit my family and I more to vote for? Which one is actually telling the truth? At this point I have to wonder if either of them are due to the last election!
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 7:55 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
supportthedist,
My suggestions:
#1 Ignore what people are saying on these forums until you become knowledgeable on the issues.
#2 As a collorary to #1 do some research in order to become knowledgeable on the issues.
#3 After doing the above compare the candidates claims with what you have learned.
#4 As a criteria for selection look not only at the benefits to your family now, but for the future.
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 9:09 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well Class, my “insulting” statement was removed by the Sentinel. So you may continue to post your side without reply.
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 9:10 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
It’s all about the power of misinformation, folks. There is a concerted effort among the right wing, and especially the neo-con camp, to eliminate the common battlefield of reality. You know, the place where two sides can come together and argue the merits of the various “sides” of an issue, with actual facts and evidence to support those arguments. Take any of the issues confronting our great nation today, and you will find so much misinformation that it becomes impossible to argue without descending into an endless bout of discrediting the misinformation. Evolution and climate change are perfect examples. For every hard, solid fact on one side, there is a bit of misinformation on the other, casting doubt into the minds of the skeptics, and even when the misinformation is debunked, the skeptic’s mind is skewed even further from the truth. The republican ‘war on science’ and the effort to stack all government agencies with partisan hacks is further proof that the total elimination of truth from any argument is the ultimate goal of the Rovian political machine. By turning any argument into a quagmire of half-truths, lies, flag-waving, and innuendo, most citizens just believe the side they liked the best before the argument started.
Here is a neat article from the Wapo on the subject of misinformation. PLEASE read it!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402375_pf.html
The Power of Political Misinformation
By Shankar Vedantam
Monday, September 15, 2008; A06
Have you seen the photo of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin brandishing a rifle while wearing a U.S. flag bikini? Have you read the e-mail saying Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama was sworn into the U.S. Senate with his hand placed on the Koran? Both are fabricated — and are among the hottest pieces of misinformation in circulation.
As the presidential campaign heats up, intense efforts are underway to debunk rumors and misinformation. Nearly all these efforts rest on the assumption that good information is the antidote to misinformation.
But a series of new experiments show that misinformation can exercise a ghostly influence on people’s minds after it has been debunked — even among people who recognize it as misinformation. In some cases, correcting misinformation serves to increase the power of bad information.
In experiments conducted by political scientist John Bullock at Yale University, volunteers were given various items of political misinformation from real life. One group of volunteers was shown a transcript of an ad created by NARAL Pro-Choice America that accused John G. Roberts Jr., President Bush’s nominee to the Supreme Court at the time, of “supporting violent fringe groups and a convicted clinic bomber.”
A variety of psychological experiments have shown that political misinformation primarily works by feeding into people’s preexisting views. People who did not like Roberts to begin with, then, ought to have been most receptive to the damaging allegation, and this is exactly what Bullock found. Democrats were far more likely than Republicans to disapprove of Roberts after hearing the allegation.
Bullock then showed volunteers a refutation of the ad by abortion-rights supporters. He also told the volunteers that the advocacy group had withdrawn the ad. Although 56 percent of Democrats had originally disapproved of Roberts before hearing the misinformation, 80 percent of Democrats disapproved of the Supreme Court nominee afterward. Upon hearing the refutation, Democratic disapproval of Roberts dropped only to 72 percent.
Republican disapproval of Roberts rose after hearing the misinformation but vanished upon hearing the correct information. The damaging charge, in other words, continued to have an effect even after it was debunked among precisely those people predisposed to buy the bad information in the first place.
Bullock found a similar effect when it came to misinformation about abuses at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Volunteers were shown a Newsweek report that suggested a Koran had been flushed down a toilet, followed by a retraction by the magazine. Where 56 percent of Democrats had disapproved of detainee treatment before they were misinformed about the Koran incident, 78 percent disapproved afterward. Upon hearing the refutation, Democratic disapproval dropped back only to 68 percent — showing that misinformation continued to affect the attitudes of Democrats even after they knew the information was false.
Bullock and others have also shown that some refutations can strengthen misinformation, especially among conservatives.
Political scientists Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler provided two groups of volunteers with the Bush administration’s prewar claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. One group was given a refutation — the comprehensive 2004 Duelfer report that concluded that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction before the United States invaded in 2003. Thirty-four percent of conservatives told only about the Bush administration’s claims thought Iraq had hidden or destroyed its weapons before the U.S. invasion, but 64 percent of conservatives who heard both claim and refutation thought that Iraq really did have the weapons. The refutation, in other words, made the misinformation worse.
A similar “backfire effect” also influenced conservatives told about Bush administration assertions that tax cuts increase federal revenue. One group was offered a refutation by prominent economists that included current and former Bush administration officials. About 35 percent of conservatives told about the Bush claim believed it; 67 percent of those provided with both assertion and refutation believed that tax cuts increase revenue.
In a paper approaching publication, Nyhan, a PhD student at Duke University, and Reifler, at Georgia State University, suggest that Republicans might be especially prone to the backfire effect because conservatives may have more rigid views than liberals: Upon hearing a refutation, conservatives might “argue back” against the refutation in their minds, thereby strengthening their belief in the misinformation. Nyhan and Reifler did not see the same “backfire effect” when liberals were given misinformation and a refutation about the Bush administration’s stance on stem cell research.
Bullock, Nyhan and Reifler are all Democrats.
Reifler questioned attempts to debunk rumors and misinformation on the campaign trail, especially among conservatives: “Sarah Palin says she was against the Bridge to Nowhere,” he said, referring to the pork-barrel project Palin once supported before she reversed herself. “Sending those corrections to committed Republicans is not going to be effective, and they in fact may come to believe even more strongly that she was always against the Bridge to Nowhere.”
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 9:31 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
For some deft analysis of the article above, scroll down about 6 articles at “Hullabaloo.”
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
And don’t miss the article about Mccains health-care plan…
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 9:49 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
For deft analysis, go to Digby’s Hullabaloo and scroll down 6-7 articles. And don’t miss article on Mccain’s health-care plan… The forum won’t let me post the link, just use the google…
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 10:06 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I just read Tom Teepen’s column in today’s paper where he labels McCain as a serial liar and then gives a number of examples. He starts off his column by mentioning the Obama lie regarding McCain’s 100 years in Iraq. Had he written his column a day or two later, he could have included Obama’s lie from yesterday regarding McCain’s current view of the economy.
Apparently the Sentinel has no problem when Tom Teepen calls McCain a liar, but when I call Obama a liar, and those who repeat it liars, it chooses to delete my posting.
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 10:14 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Perhaps bullishfrog missed the recent statement by none other than Karl Rove, the ‘guru’ of distortion and outright deception in the winning of political campaigns. Even that shameless individual has accused the Republican candidate of ‘going too far’ in his practices.
Now, bullishfrog may have a different definition than I do but to me, if one ‘wilfully deceives’, one has lied. It seems that facts and truth are difficult enough to ascertain without it having it deliberately distorted, such it no longer bears any resemblance to reality.
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 10:28 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Perhaps RL would relate the Karl Rove statement in its entirety instead of selectively choosing what he said. RL exhibits the lie by omission standard which those he accuses have chosen to practice.
Karl Rove did, indeed, accuse McCain of distortion, AND he did the same of Obama. He was even handed and he was on FOX TV.
And I totally agree with Karl Rove on this. As I wrote earlier, and in other threads, I admit that both sides are guilty of this. Liberals like RL will only accuse one side.
Posted September 16th, 2008 at 10:31 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Wow…Karl Rove thinks someone (anyone) is engaging in distortion.
Next up, Paris Hilton calls someone a no-talent attention junkie…
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