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	<title>Comments on: Obama is &#8216;all front and no back&#8217;</title>
	<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/</link>
	<description>Grand Junction, Colorado's community Web site, discussions, forums, message boards, wiki and more.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13807</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13807</guid>
		<description>Wow...Karl Rove thinks someone (anyone) is engaging in distortion. 
Next up, Paris Hilton calls someone a no-talent attention junkie...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;Karl Rove thinks someone (anyone) is engaging in distortion.<br />
Next up, Paris Hilton calls someone a no-talent attention junkie&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bullishfrog</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13806</link>
		<dc:creator>bullishfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13806</guid>
		<description>Perhaps RL would relate the Karl Rove statement in its entirety instead of selectively choosing what he said.  RL exhibits the lie by omission standard which those he accuses have chosen to practice.

Karl Rove did, indeed, accuse McCain of distortion, AND he did the same of Obama.  He was even handed and he was on FOX TV.  

And I totally agree with Karl Rove on this.  As I wrote earlier, and in other threads, I admit that both sides are guilty of this. Liberals like RL will only accuse one side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps RL would relate the Karl Rove statement in its entirety instead of selectively choosing what he said.  RL exhibits the lie by omission standard which those he accuses have chosen to practice.</p>
<p>Karl Rove did, indeed, accuse McCain of distortion, AND he did the same of Obama.  He was even handed and he was on FOX TV.  </p>
<p>And I totally agree with Karl Rove on this.  As I wrote earlier, and in other threads, I admit that both sides are guilty of this. Liberals like RL will only accuse one side.</p>
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		<title>By: RLaitres</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13804</link>
		<dc:creator>RLaitres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13804</guid>
		<description>Perhaps bullishfrog missed the recent statement by none other than Karl Rove, the 'guru' of distortion and outright deception in the winning of political campaigns.  Even that shameless individual has accused the Republican candidate of 'going too far' in his practices.  

Now, bullishfrog may have a different definition than I do but to me, if one 'wilfully deceives', one has lied.  It seems that facts and truth are difficult enough to ascertain without it having it deliberately distorted, such it no longer bears any resemblance to reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps bullishfrog missed the recent statement by none other than Karl Rove, the &#8216;guru&#8217; of distortion and outright deception in the winning of political campaigns.  Even that shameless individual has accused the Republican candidate of &#8216;going too far&#8217; in his practices.  </p>
<p>Now, bullishfrog may have a different definition than I do but to me, if one &#8216;wilfully deceives&#8217;, one has lied.  It seems that facts and truth are difficult enough to ascertain without it having it deliberately distorted, such it no longer bears any resemblance to reality.</p>
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		<title>By: bullishfrog</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13802</link>
		<dc:creator>bullishfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13802</guid>
		<description>I just read Tom Teepen's column in today's paper where he labels McCain as a serial liar and then gives a number of examples.  He starts off his column by mentioning the Obama lie regarding McCain's 100 years in Iraq.  Had he written his column a day or two later, he could have included Obama's lie from yesterday regarding McCain's current view of the economy.

Apparently the Sentinel has no problem when Tom Teepen calls McCain a liar, but when I call Obama a liar, and those who repeat it liars, it chooses to delete my posting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read Tom Teepen&#8217;s column in today&#8217;s paper where he labels McCain as a serial liar and then gives a number of examples.  He starts off his column by mentioning the Obama lie regarding McCain&#8217;s 100 years in Iraq.  Had he written his column a day or two later, he could have included Obama&#8217;s lie from yesterday regarding McCain&#8217;s current view of the economy.</p>
<p>Apparently the Sentinel has no problem when Tom Teepen calls McCain a liar, but when I call Obama a liar, and those who repeat it liars, it chooses to delete my posting.</p>
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		<title>By: toaaronuu</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13798</link>
		<dc:creator>toaaronuu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13798</guid>
		<description>For deft analysis, go to Digby's Hullabaloo and scroll down 6-7 articles. And don't miss article on Mccain's health-care plan... The forum won't let me post the link, just use the google...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For deft analysis, go to Digby&#8217;s Hullabaloo and scroll down 6-7 articles. And don&#8217;t miss article on Mccain&#8217;s health-care plan&#8230; The forum won&#8217;t let me post the link, just use the google&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: toaaronuu</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13796</link>
		<dc:creator>toaaronuu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13796</guid>
		<description>For some deft analysis of the article above, scroll down about 6 articles at "Hullabaloo."
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

And don't miss the article about Mccains health-care plan...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some deft analysis of the article above, scroll down about 6 articles at &#8220;Hullabaloo.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>And don&#8217;t miss the article about Mccains health-care plan&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: toaaronuu</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13790</link>
		<dc:creator>toaaronuu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13790</guid>
		<description>It's all about the power of misinformation, folks. There is a concerted effort among the right wing, and especially the neo-con camp, to eliminate the common battlefield of reality. You know, the place where two sides can come together and argue the merits of the various "sides" of an issue, with actual facts and evidence to support those arguments. Take any of the issues confronting our great nation today, and you will find so much misinformation that it becomes impossible to argue without descending into an endless bout of discrediting the misinformation. Evolution and climate change are perfect examples. For every hard, solid fact on one side, there is a bit of misinformation on the other, casting doubt into the minds of the skeptics, and even when the misinformation is debunked, the skeptic's mind is skewed even further from the truth. The republican 'war on science' and the effort to stack all government agencies with partisan hacks is further proof that the total elimination of truth from any argument is the ultimate goal of the Rovian political machine. By turning any argument into a quagmire of half-truths, lies, flag-waving, and innuendo, most citizens just believe the side they liked the best before the argument started. 
Here is a neat article from the Wapo on the subject of misinformation. PLEASE read it!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402375_pf.html



The Power of Political Misinformation

By Shankar Vedantam
Monday, September 15, 2008; A06

Have you seen the photo of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin brandishing a rifle while wearing a U.S. flag bikini? Have you read the e-mail saying Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama was sworn into the U.S. Senate with his hand placed on the Koran? Both are fabricated -- and are among the hottest pieces of misinformation in circulation.

As the presidential campaign heats up, intense efforts are underway to debunk rumors and misinformation. Nearly all these efforts rest on the assumption that good information is the antidote to misinformation.

But a series of new experiments show that misinformation can exercise a ghostly influence on people's minds after it has been debunked -- even among people who recognize it as misinformation. In some cases, correcting misinformation serves to increase the power of bad information.

In experiments conducted by political scientist John Bullock at Yale University, volunteers were given various items of political misinformation from real life. One group of volunteers was shown a transcript of an ad created by NARAL Pro-Choice America that accused John G. Roberts Jr., President Bush's nominee to the Supreme Court at the time, of "supporting violent fringe groups and a convicted clinic bomber."

A variety of psychological experiments have shown that political misinformation primarily works by feeding into people's preexisting views. People who did not like Roberts to begin with, then, ought to have been most receptive to the damaging allegation, and this is exactly what Bullock found. Democrats were far more likely than Republicans to disapprove of Roberts after hearing the allegation.

Bullock then showed volunteers a refutation of the ad by abortion-rights supporters. He also told the volunteers that the advocacy group had withdrawn the ad. Although 56 percent of Democrats had originally disapproved of Roberts before hearing the misinformation, 80 percent of Democrats disapproved of the Supreme Court nominee afterward. Upon hearing the refutation, Democratic disapproval of Roberts dropped only to 72 percent.

Republican disapproval of Roberts rose after hearing the misinformation but vanished upon hearing the correct information. The damaging charge, in other words, continued to have an effect even after it was debunked among precisely those people predisposed to buy the bad information in the first place.

Bullock found a similar effect when it came to misinformation about abuses at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Volunteers were shown a Newsweek report that suggested a Koran had been flushed down a toilet, followed by a retraction by the magazine. Where 56 percent of Democrats had disapproved of detainee treatment before they were misinformed about the Koran incident, 78 percent disapproved afterward. Upon hearing the refutation, Democratic disapproval dropped back only to 68 percent -- showing that misinformation continued to affect the attitudes of Democrats even after they knew the information was false.

Bullock and others have also shown that some refutations can strengthen misinformation, especially among conservatives.

Political scientists Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler provided two groups of volunteers with the Bush administration's prewar claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. One group was given a refutation -- the comprehensive 2004 Duelfer report that concluded that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction before the United States invaded in 2003. Thirty-four percent of conservatives told only about the Bush administration's claims thought Iraq had hidden or destroyed its weapons before the U.S. invasion, but 64 percent of conservatives who heard both claim and refutation thought that Iraq really did have the weapons. The refutation, in other words, made the misinformation worse.

A similar "backfire effect" also influenced conservatives told about Bush administration assertions that tax cuts increase federal revenue. One group was offered a refutation by prominent economists that included current and former Bush administration officials. About 35 percent of conservatives told about the Bush claim believed it; 67 percent of those provided with both assertion and refutation believed that tax cuts increase revenue.

In a paper approaching publication, Nyhan, a PhD student at Duke University, and Reifler, at Georgia State University, suggest that Republicans might be especially prone to the backfire effect because conservatives may have more rigid views than liberals: Upon hearing a refutation, conservatives might "argue back" against the refutation in their minds, thereby strengthening their belief in the misinformation. Nyhan and Reifler did not see the same "backfire effect" when liberals were given misinformation and a refutation about the Bush administration's stance on stem cell research.


Bullock, Nyhan and Reifler are all Democrats.

Reifler questioned attempts to debunk rumors and misinformation on the campaign trail, especially among conservatives: "Sarah Palin says she was against the Bridge to Nowhere," he said, referring to the pork-barrel project Palin once supported before she reversed herself. "Sending those corrections to committed Republicans is not going to be effective, and they in fact may come to believe even more strongly that she was always against the Bridge to Nowhere."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all about the power of misinformation, folks. There is a concerted effort among the right wing, and especially the neo-con camp, to eliminate the common battlefield of reality. You know, the place where two sides can come together and argue the merits of the various &#8220;sides&#8221; of an issue, with actual facts and evidence to support those arguments. Take any of the issues confronting our great nation today, and you will find so much misinformation that it becomes impossible to argue without descending into an endless bout of discrediting the misinformation. Evolution and climate change are perfect examples. For every hard, solid fact on one side, there is a bit of misinformation on the other, casting doubt into the minds of the skeptics, and even when the misinformation is debunked, the skeptic&#8217;s mind is skewed even further from the truth. The republican &#8216;war on science&#8217; and the effort to stack all government agencies with partisan hacks is further proof that the total elimination of truth from any argument is the ultimate goal of the Rovian political machine. By turning any argument into a quagmire of half-truths, lies, flag-waving, and innuendo, most citizens just believe the side they liked the best before the argument started.<br />
Here is a neat article from the Wapo on the subject of misinformation. PLEASE read it!<br />
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402375_pf.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402375_pf.html</a></p>
<p>The Power of Political Misinformation</p>
<p>By Shankar Vedantam<br />
Monday, September 15, 2008; A06</p>
<p>Have you seen the photo of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin brandishing a rifle while wearing a U.S. flag bikini? Have you read the e-mail saying Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama was sworn into the U.S. Senate with his hand placed on the Koran? Both are fabricated &#8212; and are among the hottest pieces of misinformation in circulation.</p>
<p>As the presidential campaign heats up, intense efforts are underway to debunk rumors and misinformation. Nearly all these efforts rest on the assumption that good information is the antidote to misinformation.</p>
<p>But a series of new experiments show that misinformation can exercise a ghostly influence on people&#8217;s minds after it has been debunked &#8212; even among people who recognize it as misinformation. In some cases, correcting misinformation serves to increase the power of bad information.</p>
<p>In experiments conducted by political scientist John Bullock at Yale University, volunteers were given various items of political misinformation from real life. One group of volunteers was shown a transcript of an ad created by NARAL Pro-Choice America that accused John G. Roberts Jr., President Bush&#8217;s nominee to the Supreme Court at the time, of &#8220;supporting violent fringe groups and a convicted clinic bomber.&#8221;</p>
<p>A variety of psychological experiments have shown that political misinformation primarily works by feeding into people&#8217;s preexisting views. People who did not like Roberts to begin with, then, ought to have been most receptive to the damaging allegation, and this is exactly what Bullock found. Democrats were far more likely than Republicans to disapprove of Roberts after hearing the allegation.</p>
<p>Bullock then showed volunteers a refutation of the ad by abortion-rights supporters. He also told the volunteers that the advocacy group had withdrawn the ad. Although 56 percent of Democrats had originally disapproved of Roberts before hearing the misinformation, 80 percent of Democrats disapproved of the Supreme Court nominee afterward. Upon hearing the refutation, Democratic disapproval of Roberts dropped only to 72 percent.</p>
<p>Republican disapproval of Roberts rose after hearing the misinformation but vanished upon hearing the correct information. The damaging charge, in other words, continued to have an effect even after it was debunked among precisely those people predisposed to buy the bad information in the first place.</p>
<p>Bullock found a similar effect when it came to misinformation about abuses at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Volunteers were shown a Newsweek report that suggested a Koran had been flushed down a toilet, followed by a retraction by the magazine. Where 56 percent of Democrats had disapproved of detainee treatment before they were misinformed about the Koran incident, 78 percent disapproved afterward. Upon hearing the refutation, Democratic disapproval dropped back only to 68 percent &#8212; showing that misinformation continued to affect the attitudes of Democrats even after they knew the information was false.</p>
<p>Bullock and others have also shown that some refutations can strengthen misinformation, especially among conservatives.</p>
<p>Political scientists Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler provided two groups of volunteers with the Bush administration&#8217;s prewar claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. One group was given a refutation &#8212; the comprehensive 2004 Duelfer report that concluded that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction before the United States invaded in 2003. Thirty-four percent of conservatives told only about the Bush administration&#8217;s claims thought Iraq had hidden or destroyed its weapons before the U.S. invasion, but 64 percent of conservatives who heard both claim and refutation thought that Iraq really did have the weapons. The refutation, in other words, made the misinformation worse.</p>
<p>A similar &#8220;backfire effect&#8221; also influenced conservatives told about Bush administration assertions that tax cuts increase federal revenue. One group was offered a refutation by prominent economists that included current and former Bush administration officials. About 35 percent of conservatives told about the Bush claim believed it; 67 percent of those provided with both assertion and refutation believed that tax cuts increase revenue.</p>
<p>In a paper approaching publication, Nyhan, a PhD student at Duke University, and Reifler, at Georgia State University, suggest that Republicans might be especially prone to the backfire effect because conservatives may have more rigid views than liberals: Upon hearing a refutation, conservatives might &#8220;argue back&#8221; against the refutation in their minds, thereby strengthening their belief in the misinformation. Nyhan and Reifler did not see the same &#8220;backfire effect&#8221; when liberals were given misinformation and a refutation about the Bush administration&#8217;s stance on stem cell research.</p>
<p>Bullock, Nyhan and Reifler are all Democrats.</p>
<p>Reifler questioned attempts to debunk rumors and misinformation on the campaign trail, especially among conservatives: &#8220;Sarah Palin says she was against the Bridge to Nowhere,&#8221; he said, referring to the pork-barrel project Palin once supported before she reversed herself. &#8220;Sending those corrections to committed Republicans is not going to be effective, and they in fact may come to believe even more strongly that she was always against the Bridge to Nowhere.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bullishfrog</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13788</link>
		<dc:creator>bullishfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13788</guid>
		<description>Well Class, my "insulting" statement was removed by the Sentinel.  So you may continue to post your side without reply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Class, my &#8220;insulting&#8221; statement was removed by the Sentinel.  So you may continue to post your side without reply.</p>
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		<title>By: rm</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13781</link>
		<dc:creator>rm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13781</guid>
		<description>supportthedist,

My suggestions:

#1 Ignore what people are saying on these forums until you become knowledgeable on the issues.

#2 As a collorary to #1 do some research in order to become  knowledgeable on the issues.

#3 After doing the above compare the candidates claims with what you have learned.

#4 As a criteria for selection look not only at the benefits to your family now, but for the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>supportthedist,</p>
<p>My suggestions:</p>
<p>#1 Ignore what people are saying on these forums until you become knowledgeable on the issues.</p>
<p>#2 As a collorary to #1 do some research in order to become  knowledgeable on the issues.</p>
<p>#3 After doing the above compare the candidates claims with what you have learned.</p>
<p>#4 As a criteria for selection look not only at the benefits to your family now, but for the future.</p>
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		<title>By: supportthedist</title>
		<link>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13776</link>
		<dc:creator>supportthedist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://community.gjsentinel.com/2008/09/13/obama-is-all-front-and-no-back/#comment-13776</guid>
		<description>I am not going to try to act like I read all of these posts, or like I know exactly where each candidate stands. I am pretty much on the fence when it comes to the election, and I know that there are quite a few of you out there that have studied up on the candidates a lot more that I have. Now I'll play the devil's advocate on this one. I am pretty much in the middle at this point as the last two time I have voted when it came to platforms, it has had nothing to do with what I voted for. I have a family (which a lot of you have said that Obama will raise taxes on) and my wife and I are going to college (which he says he will make a major issue if he becomes president), now which would benifit my family and I more to vote for? Which one is actually telling the truth? At this point I have to wonder if either of them are due to the last election!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not going to try to act like I read all of these posts, or like I know exactly where each candidate stands. I am pretty much on the fence when it comes to the election, and I know that there are quite a few of you out there that have studied up on the candidates a lot more that I have. Now I&#8217;ll play the devil&#8217;s advocate on this one. I am pretty much in the middle at this point as the last two time I have voted when it came to platforms, it has had nothing to do with what I voted for. I have a family (which a lot of you have said that Obama will raise taxes on) and my wife and I are going to college (which he says he will make a major issue if he becomes president), now which would benifit my family and I more to vote for? Which one is actually telling the truth? At this point I have to wonder if either of them are due to the last election!</p>
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