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It’s interesting how the Black Mountain Disposal toxic pond situation near De Beque has developed over the years. Commissioner Craig Meis has been out front in the county’s lack of action in the past to bring the outfit to compliance with Janet Rowland standing dutifully at his side. Mr. Meis’s company had Black Mountain as a client in the past and he knew long before it became a public issue what a shoddy operation and threat to the public welfare the dump was.
Now, all of sudden, getting close to an election, Janet Rowland, who is up for re-election, is the front person in the media announcing that the county is getting tough on this company for doing what has been out in the open for years. She, apparently, is no longer Meis’ lackey and is a crusader for all that is right and proper for the safety and health of the people of the county, particularly those in De Beque, to whom the county just lost a bogus lawsuit.
Go get them, Janet, in your new, election-year role as a righteous crusader! Does she think the collapse of our country’s financial system due to excessive fellow Republican deregulation had anything to do with the commissioners’ new zeal in at least starting to enforce existing regulations? Probably only a coincidence in timing. It is election year, after all.
JOHN BORGEN
Grand Junction
37 Responses to “All of sudden, Rowland is leading charge aginst Black Mountain”
Posted September 24th, 2008 at 7:33 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
John - Have you ever been to the Black Mountain Disposal facility? Do you know how their operation functions? Do you know what type of conditional use permit they have been issued? OK, a more simple question for you since you seem to know so much about them. How many disposal ponds do they have? How many monitoring wells do they have and how deep were they drilled? How many potable water wells are within a 5 mile radius of the facility? Why were they recently shut down?(temporarily I might add) How, exactly, are these ponds a “threat to the public welfare”? If you find it difficult, if not impossible, to answer these questions, then why are you running your mouth and slandering their operation? The only reason Mr. Meis is trying to shut them down now is because he has an interest in a brand spanking new “toxic pond” that Noble Energy is planning to build with Mr. Meis’s company leading the charge!
Zack Stanley
Bay Minette, AL
Posted September 24th, 2008 at 10:12 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Zack, as a matter of fact I have never been to the facilities nor can I answer your questions. But I’m good friends of people who have and know the situation and it’s history in great depth. It sounds like you have an interest in Black Mountain. I have an interest in seeing that this county welcomes the energy industry and all of it’s supporting companies but puts some regulations and monitoring systems in place to see that our water supply, our natural enviornment is kept as pristine as possible and home and property owners are protected from undue hazards and intrusion. The records of the state and the county are clear on the various violations committed by the operators of Black Moutain. It’s just as clear that the county could have interfered long ago to see that the pulic safety was protected. But they didn’t until now in a show of election year hypocrisy. I’m fee to “run my mouth” on anything I believe to be a problem whether I personally have seen the problem first hand or whether I find somebody with credibility and integrity that has explained it to me. In the end, are you saying that there is absolutely no problems at Black Mountain nor has there ever been?
Posted September 25th, 2008 at 7:43 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
HERE’S THE INFO from a previous post:
Letter-writer Zack is precisely on-target with this. Just ask County Commissioner Craig Meis, since his private-sector company (Cordilleran) is representing Noble Energy in their efforts to build a larger waste-treatment facility - that is hoping to squash the little competitor known as Black Mountain.
Please ask Mr. Meis & the Mesa County Planning Dept. about Meis’ company’s involvement with NOBLE ENERGY in the far reaches of Mesa County:
Mesa County 2007-038 CUP1
PARACHUTE EVAPORATION FACILITY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
Property Owner(s): John & Phyllis Hyrup, Hyrup Properties, LLLP
Representative(s): Amanda Jacobs, Cordilleran Compliance Services, Inc
Developer: Jon Bowman, Noble Energy, Inc
Location: 3139 County Road 306, Collbran 81624 (Housetop Mountain Road & X 5/10 Road)
Zoning: AFT
Planner: Jim Komatinsky, 244-1774, Jim.Komatinsky@mesacounty.us
Request: To construct and operate an evaporative facility to store evaporated and recycle produced water generated from natural gas production.
Posted September 25th, 2008 at 7:23 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
John - I appreciate your concern for responsible energy development and production. The problem with your concern is that you, like 99% of the other people commenting on this issue, have absolutely zero “first hand” knowledge of the operation, it’s owners, or its continued committment to satisfy the State Health Department’s hair-brained ideas. The State Health Department hires people to inspect these facilities who have absolutely no credentials to perform their jobs. Even one single college class like Groundwater Flow would be a huge benefit, let alone a true engineering degree or a PE license.
You asked if I had an interest in Black Mountain. If an “interest” happens to be that the recently deceased founder of the company and Jeff and Elaine Pratt happen to be lifelong friends of mine, then YES I do have an interest. I know them all to be honest, to a fault, and of much higher character than the commissioners and State officials that have shut down their small business in favor of bigger money companies.
All I ask John, is do some research of your very own, use your head, and then bring forth facts to support your position. Heresay just doesn’t do it for me. I asked the State many years ago to tell me the name of the aquifer that lies below the Black Mountain facility. I also asked for some background water quality information from wells that were drilled into that aquifer. After all, you need to know the quality of the water that pre-existed in order to compare current samples to, then make a determination as to potential groundwater flow from the site. It’s Groundwater 101. I was told they would get back to me on that one. Never happened. Why? I know the answer to that one.
All I ask John, is do some research of your very own, use your head, and then bring forth facts to support your position. Heresay just doesn’t do it for me.
William (Zack) Stanley, P.E.
Bay Minette, AL
Posted September 25th, 2008 at 8:43 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Well Zack, you are asking a lot of John.
Maybe we will see if he is up to the task.
Posted September 25th, 2008 at 9:51 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Sorry, I didn’t mean to task anyone with too much effort. Just common sense to me. Simple questions to ask. What aquifer exists below the facility, and what is, or was, the water quality of that aquifer? In other words, what “ruler” should Black Mountain be measured with? Fair questions in my simple mind. Glad to hear there are a few folks wanting to know the answers to those two questions also.
I guess we’ll see what comes up in the big courts, later down the nasty road.
Posted September 25th, 2008 at 10:30 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Printed truth: “…the State Health Department’s hair-brained ideas. The State Health Department hires people to inspect these facilities who have absolutely no credentials to perform their jobs. Even one single college class like Groundwater Flow would be a huge benefit, let alone a true engineering degree or a PE license.”
“All I ask John, is do some research of your very own, use your head, and then bring forth facts to support your position. Heresay just doesn’t do it for me.”
How about applying your own standards to your own comments? do you have any evidence to support what you say about the State Health department’s “hare-brained ideas” and the qualifications of their people or is this just hearsay or your own biased comments?
Posted September 25th, 2008 at 10:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
PT,
I took your advice and did some research on “Black Mountain Disposal”. The ponds appear to be located on the Debeque cutoff road and are about 200 feet from a tributary of Plateau creek. Since they had a spill that apparently was not remediated could that not lead to a situation where a “Gully Washer rainfall” would ultimately contaminate Plateau Creek?
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 2:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
rm, you really have no idea. There was no “spill” nor anything close to a spill, not to mention, you have obviously never been to their facility. Does that surprise me? Not at all. Go have a look. But no, you won’t, cuz that armchair is way too comfortable. Right?
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 6:58 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Zack, the local media has reported problems at Black Mountain on numerous occasions. Others have looked into the problems in depth. I know those people to be reliable and thorough. The problems appear to be long standing. You’re support of your fiends is admirable but your attacks and snide remarks are misplaced. You seem to be saying there are no problems and never have been. The obvious answer is to go to the state and, now, the county and state your case on your friends behalf. Or are there problems and your rhetoric in this forum is just a smokescreen?
I have issues with Meis and Rowland about their supposed concern for people and the environment relative to gas well drilling and the phantom energy plan for the county. My letter is chiding Rowland for taking over the forefront position on finally “getting tough” on energy industry problems when it has been Meis in the past that was out front. Black Mountain is part of the letter, but not the main subject, and it is mentioned because it has been frequently in the news. If it has wrongly been accused of something take it up with those who put it in that position. My letter is about election year hypocrisy and county commissioners who are in the pocket of the industry. If you have issues with Meis, then take it up with him. In the meantime, Black Mountain still seems to be a problem and in the news and will remain so until it is proven otherwise and it’s not my problem to research the issue. My problem is with Meis and Rowland and their biases and poor governance of Mesa County.
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 7:58 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
PrintedTruth, I didn’t think he was up to doing any actual research, but would rely on somebody else’s efforts.
Right, wrong, or indifferent, it makes no difference as long as he didn’t actually have to make any effort on his part.
I apologize for his being such a letdown to you.
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 8:11 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Willis - LOL, yeah, you gotta love those “armchair” quarterbacks. Kinda like Kornheiser on Monday Night Football. Never played, never took a hit, but seems to know everything about the game. Oh well, I’m trying not to slam him too hard. I just want him to see a different piece of the puzzle that his local media refuses to let out.
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 8:31 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Probably true, but maybe next time he will “engage brain before putting mouth into gear”. Or, who knows, maybe he will actually do some research and “enlighten” all of us poor folks.
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 8:33 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Zack, if you actually read what I said it was “others have looked into the problem in depth”. I relied on the “others” who have experience in the field and were very familiar with the history of Black Mountain. Sometimes the paper gets it right, sometimes not. I said it has been in the news. My sources said it was rightly in the news and why. Why the smart-ass flying saucer crap? Do you make judgements on things based on the information and opinions of those you respect and trust? I told you what my reason for writing was and why Black Mountain was the trigger because of Rowland’s hypocrisy. Why all the superflous nonsense. If Black Mountain has wrongfully been smeared write a letter to the editor and take it up with those who are the source of claiming that there have been numerous problems at Black Mountain.
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 8:35 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
He asked you to personally do your own research John.
I predicted that you wouldn’t.
See how predictable you are?
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 9:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Printed Truth: “Probably true, but maybe next time he will “engage brain before putting mouth into gear”. Or, who knows, maybe he will actually do some research and “enlighten” all of us poor folks.”
Meanwhile Printed Truth has apparently declined to back up his own assertions with any evidence as challenged above. This appears to be a case of hypocrisy: “Do as I say, not as I do”!
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 4:01 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Classof52 - It is public knowledge who has been inspecting this facility for the past 10 plus years. Just go look it up. Then, once you figure out who has been doing the inspections, ask yourself, what qualifies them to make any scientific determinations regarding contamination or lack thereof. And, while you are at it, check out how many times Black Mountain was “praised” for their efforts to run a top quality disposal facility in the very inspection reports conducted by this individual. All these comments occurred much later than the supposed “spill” that occured in 2001. But, all of a sudden, they are not complying with any State or County requirements. When did that happen? Right after your County Commissioners decided to get in bed with big oil companies for their own personal benefit. Just take a look at Mike Hunt’s post above. It only gets better Class, you are just dipping your foot into the bath water right now.
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 4:20 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
class, this post from PrintedTruth should be right up your alley since you always insist on only learned scientists should be able to discuss scientific matters.
You mention quite often that you have a scientifically trained mind, able to grasp scientific concepts and understand the terms scientists use.
And you are always interested in learning the truth about such matters.
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 7:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
PT,
I think you are missing the point. Many of us who live in this area are suspicious of Commissioner Meis and his possible conflicts of interests with respect to the local oil and gas industry. At the very least he should recuse himself from obvious conflicts of interest’s such as the Delta Petroleum and Black Mountain affairs. Additionally it is suspect that the County Commissioners are coming down on Black Mountain just before election time. Having said that, it does not excuse Black Mountain from meeting their responsibilities in complying with environmental regulations. The pertinent question should be is Black Mountain being held to higher standards then their competitors?
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 8:16 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
rm Just how do you know just what has gone at Black Mountain and that they did not meet responsibilities on the contrary they have gone above and beyond to stay in complience with the state and why all of the sudden does the county want to put their 2 cents in for all it is worth, i am so sick of you know it all’s who have never worked in the industry or that has never been at the site or even knows what goes on there.
Posted September 26th, 2008 at 9:28 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
kay44,
I have no idea what has gone on at Black Mountain. I will repeat my main point;
“The pertinent question should be is Black Mountain being held to higher standards then their competitors?”
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 6:24 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
These folks keep saying, “you have never been to the site”. So what? The problems with Black Mountain have been documented and talked about for years. Western Colorado Congess and its’ staff worked for months on this issue. If you want to know the scoop on BM, ask the local residents who have suffered the effects of that toxic waste pit for years. Furthermore, the last time I drove by there , I did not see a big WELCOME sign on the gate. We would have been delighted to come in and sample the water. We were never invited.
This does not minimize the likelihood that the action taken by Meis and Rowland was politically or financially motivated. Craig Meis is becoming more of a liability to Mesa County with each passing day. Between his shenanigans on this one, his cozy relationship with Delta Petroleum, and the rumors that he has aided Halliburton against Schlumberger, he is getting closer and closer to costing Mesa County a ton of money paying for lawyers.
By the way, the last time I posted on this subject, Bob Silbernagel (or someone over there) pulled the post. Are you gonna leave this one, you guys?
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 7:29 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
By the way, PT. I am not an “armchair quarterback”. I worked in the gas patch for years and I know what they put in those pits.
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 8:30 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc - The gas patch for years eh? Does years mean like “2″?? If you have honestly worked in the natural gas industry for years, you would obviously be educated enough to know that Black Mountain is located in the middle of a natural gas field. But I’m not going to waste anybody’s time proving how little you know of natural gas. I suggest if you want to discuss things you know nothing about, run for county commissioner or go work for the State Dept. of Health. If you have really worked in the gas patch for years, what would i mean if I said a gas well was “logged off”? That’s a basic and simple question, we can move from kindergarten to first grade if you can answer that one.
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 8:40 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
dc, BTW,what do you mean by this statement?
“The problems with Black Mountain have been documented and talked about for years.”
Can you enlighten us all about what these specific “problems” were?? Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 10:03 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Yeah, that’s exactly what Willis would say (and exactly how he’d say it, too).
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 10:14 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
While we’re on the evaporation-pond topic, please ask Comm. Meis (and be sure to look him straight in the eyes) about his involvement and financial stake with the newest evaporation pond facility over near Cisco in Grand County, Utah.
http://www.grandcountyutah.net/pdf/planning/080813_min.pdf
“Danish Flats Environmental Services” is the operator on land owned by the “San Arroyo Livestock Company.” All sorts of interesting players and connections to Grand Junction. Just ask Meis – and then observe his body language and skin hue.
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 11:49 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
From the “Report of Monitoring Well Construction at Black Mountain Disposal Facility” I quote “The Mesa Verde, which underlies the site at a depth of several hundred feet, is Cretaceous Age and is made up of several thousand feet of marginal marine and continental deposits of sandstone and shale. It contains significant resources of coal, natural gas, and “coal-bed” methane”
BTW, Donna Stoner signs her name, Donna Stoner, Environmental Protection Specialist (note no mention of any credentials)
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 11:59 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Based on post #30 above, do you suppose there were any VOC’s below this site long before Black Mountain opened their facility?
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 7:42 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
“It’s a mistake to believe that government can give things to some people without first taking it away from others”
Is that staement oh so true. Mr. Meis must first take something away from Black Mountain Disposal to give a disposal to another. Citizens of Mesa County should be appalled by Mr. Meis conflict of interest. What better way to succeed in business, than to use a public platform for personal gain. This is the same man, who was quoted in this exact newspaper, that said big game thrives on well pads made from the industry. This is also from a man,who owns a enviromental company. One would think with a comment like that, one might be pursueing votes from the energy industry. So, whatever it takes to make ones self look good in the public eye. Or to make sure that you get additional accounts, do so at any cost.
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 8:17 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
right on soupbone you hit the nail on the head, i am right there with you on that i’ve learned my lesson the hard way i will never vote for Meis and Mrs Meies(I mean Rowland again they are scum in my book and don’t deseve to be making the decisions they have made. i remember my parents telling me when i was a child what goes around comes around hopefully it does soon.
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 8:25 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
hey Minivan soupbone has a great point doesn’t he? do you even know anything about the grand Valley or do you even live in mesa County at all, i do I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE i even raised my children here .
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 8:30 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Kay44,
Too many people see democracy as a chance to push other people around for their own personal benefit. I just hope come Novemember the voters of the county understand what many already see. Its a funny word demcoracy. Most politicians use it, but very few understand.
Posted September 27th, 2008 at 8:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
your right we can only hope
Posted September 28th, 2008 at 1:29 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Did anyone notice how quiet it got in here after just a very few facts started to be brought forth?
I just hope that eventually the brash and hasty actions taken by the commissioners, after being invited into bed by the State Health Department, come back to them full cirle in a court of law. Preferrably, in front of a real judge who does not consider himself to be “above the law” like the commissioners apparently do.
The commissioners decided to listen to two or three people looking for an “Erin Brockavich” payoff, rather than studying the facts and history and applying sound scientific judgement. Instead, they opted to rush to a decision that would not only make these two or three people happy, but would also be quite lucrative to their own financial interests. Poor, poor choices.
Posted September 29th, 2008 at 7:28 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
i agree totally i am getting the word out about the corrupt county officials
so maybe election timre we will have better officials in office,
Posted September 30th, 2008 at 8:17 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
boy it seems the ones who were bad mouthing Black Mountain don’t have anythig else to say maybe they now know printed truth knew what he was talking about when he put the facts forward about our corrupt officials,and the unjust closure of Black Mountain
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