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While campaigning for Obama the past few weeks, I was called names and insulted with crude remarks. To those people, I can only say, I forgive you. As Americans, we need to work together to repair the damage from 8 years of the Bush debacle. Hopefully, the McCain supporters will join this effort.
CARL HECK
Aspen
11 Responses to “Americans need to work together”
Posted November 5th, 2008 at 6:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Carl, thanks for extending the olive branch.
Posted November 5th, 2008 at 7:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
The way Carl worded his letter I feel like he is has extended the olive branch only to slap conservative faces with it. Just the way I read it.
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 11:25 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
The damage, lets see liberated a country, stopped mass killings of innocent people, brought democracy to a mid-east country, restored Iraqs ability to grow it’s economy, He has done what any good President should do. Promote Democracy.
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
trebor his it right on the head. Everyone knows that Obama’s views and policies are socialistic at best, and at times seemingly communist as well.
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 12:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
armywife2008 - You said, “Everyone knows that Obama’s views and policies are socialistic at best, and at times seemingly communist as well.”
To help us understand what you mean, would you please define the terms “Socialist” and “Communist” and then cite specific examples of Obama’s views and policies which you fall into each category.
Thanks.
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 1:48 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ullr asks: “..would you please define the terms “Socialist” and “Communist”…”
We certainly hope Ullr does not expect a response, as most use those terms in their own way, and something to be “afraid”. Having never studied their true meanings without the emotional baggage, there is absolutely no way they can provide any definition without it.
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 2:00 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
RLaitres - You said, “Ullr asks: “..would you please define the terms “Socialist” and “Communist”…” We certainly hope Ullr does not expect a response…”
I really hope armywife2008 responds in some fashion. It’s obvious from her original statement that she has no real idea what Socialist and Communist means except that she’s heard from her right-wing friends that they are bad.
Hopefully, she will do some basic research and provide us with her thoughts.
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 3:28 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.
Communism is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general.[1][2][3] According to Marxism, communism is the final stage in human society which has evolved into a classless, stateless society referred to by Karl Marx as “pure communism”. Leninists have attempted to produce communist societies by setting up political parties, which in some cases have become governments. These attempts have never produced the “pure” communist societies envisoned by Marx, and have led to totalitarian states.
Communism is usually considered to be a branch of socialism, a broad group of social and political ideologies, which draws on the various political and intellectual movements with origins in the work of theorists of the Industrial Revolution and the French Revolution.
To summarize those in plain english….They are advocating state control(or communal control)of all companies in an effort to distribute the wealth and power more evenly. Many countries have tried this with state owned Oil/Gas, state owned health care, state owned press agencies, state owned industries, etc…I personally hope that Obama won’t go far down that road-but the “redistribute the wealth” comments that just before the election scare some. Pelosi and Reed mentioned that they would like to see the oil/energy companies taken over by the Government-but Obama hasn’t gone that route. Communism is taken from the rich and giving to the poor until there is none of each-we all make 35,000. Doctors, teachers, trash collectors, unemployed, Fast Food worker….Obama’s plan to raise taxes on the wealthier and give that money to millions that don’t even pay taxes sounds like the initial stages of that philosophy.
There are some basics-any cursory glace at history will tell you that the further you go down that path the worse the result(USSR, Cuba, NAZIS, Red China, etc….) Theory sounds great but just isn’t compatible with human nature.
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 5:21 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Brandon, I don’t want to sound snippy, but when you cut and paste something, you really need to cite your source. I’m guessing you got those first 3 paragraphs from wikipedia, and that’s fine, just let everyone know so you’re not accused of plagiarism.
Now, Brandon said, “Theory sounds great but just isn’t compatible with human nature.” While I don’t think that pure socialism is the answer for nearly any situation, we must remember that there is a place for it in any decent society. One of the best examples is that of the levee. Levees just sit there, they don’t make anyone any money, and they cost alot to build, but who here would argue that they aren’t necessary? I like to think of it as two hands, left and right, with the right being the free market, and the left being socialism (or similar programs). I really don’t think that a country like ours can afford to cut off either hand, do you? There has to be a balance there, and it will wobble back and forth sometimes, especially in times of national hardship, but both sides are useful in their own way! As to human nature, ponder this: we are a couple weeks away from one of my favorite holidays, one that celebrates people helping other people, and sharing, and caring for the less fortunate. We’ve all heard the story about the pilgrims, right?
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 6:46 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
brandon wsc posts: “There are some basics-any cursory glace at history will tell you that the further you go down that path the worse the result(USSR, Cuba, NAZIS, Red China, etc….) Theory sounds great but just isn’t compatible with human nature.”
I might take exception to several parts of that statement. First, the NAZI were a political party, and at time people believe that because we have the word “socialist” in the title, that they were socialists. They were not as one of the underlying tenets of “socialism” is the individual. That did not exist in the fascist philosophy of the NAZI Party. What was important to them was “the state”, not the individual.
As to “theory”. There is nothing wrong with any theory, just as long as one does not allow it to become a blindly followed ideology, complete with blind adherence to dogma. That does not happen, but only if one recognizes that one is operating upon theory. What needs to be done is to set up feedback mechanism to “validate” the correctness of a theory, in particular when one acts in accordance with that theory. That is what many individuals forget.
Posted November 6th, 2008 at 10:54 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Contrary to what RL mentioned, the main tenent of socialism is just the oposite. Capitalism is much closer to focusing on the individual while socialism focuses on the community or society in whole. What is best for you isn’t important as what is best for “the community.” It was in the best interest of the german people to confiscate control over all industry, organizations, press, schools, etc…It was a political party, a party that very much wanted to create a marxist paradise(also one without minorities) where everyone’s want and need is provided by the government.
Toar, sorry but you do sound snippy…I’m visualizing a grammar teacher from the 50’s. I know that sounded snippy. I thought the cut and paste was obvious, sorry for not using APA format. And back to the topic at hand; I’m not an anarchist that believes in no role of government. I am a student of history though and realize how far we have gone past our founders vision of the power of government. I read that Thomas Jefferson and his Democtratic Republican(how funny is that name) party ran on a platform of no National military or even any federally funded canals! I realize they were really worried about totalitarian control they were used to and some federal power is necessary, but I think we crossed over that “balanced” threshhold long ago.Your lovely levees could and should be funded by the coummunity or county in need. If they can’t be afforded, then maybe they shouldn’t live there. Social Security is a joke-you pay in all year long and then get a fraction of it back when you need it(if the politicians haven’t spent it all by then). Public schools-have they helped or hindered, just keep dumping money on the problem(coming from a public school teacher). Medicare/medicaid-epic failure and now we are wanting to trust washington with the whole system? They tax your income, your purchases, your gifts, your winnings, your death, your utilities, your investments…..all in an with “your best interest in mind.” They no longer trust you to save for your own retirement, for your own health care, your childrens ed, your own livelyhood. Do people really trust the same people that run the DMV to provide those things better than you can? They are there to provide the things I can’t-a fair shake, a military to defend my country, and rule of law. (I could cut and paste the enumerated powers of government and about the elastic clause, but I’ll let you research.)
And RL: Capitalism is the best expression of a “feedback mechanism”. Don’t like service, go to competitors. Bad companies with bad ideas go down in blazes. In socialism/communism, the government owns and controls the one and only company. If you don’t like the service-shut up. If they are grossly neglegent, they just print more money or tax you more. Sure you can get rid of the politicians, but you can’t get rid of the Board of ____ or Medicare.
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