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The humiliating defeat of Democrats in Virginia and New Jersey should be an abrupt wake up call for Colorado lawmakers. The frustration that spurred the “radical” tea parties pooh-poohed by Democrats was on full display for all to see in those two “Obama states.”
It is obvious many Obama voters now have remorse over what they “bought” last year and aren’t swallowing the Democrats’ uncontrolled pork spending, exploding debt, higher taxes, bigger government, private business take over, nanny-state health care, weak foreign policies and the party’s inattention to the poor state of the economy.
It is time for our lawmakers to listen to us, not Obama, Pelosi and Reid. Quit whining and blaming others, quit pursuing low priority items that distract from fixing the economy, and quit spending money we don’t have. Congressman Salazar and Sen. Bennett, are you listening?
HOMER GREGORY
Grand Junction
50 Responses to “Democratic losses show the tide is turning”
Posted November 5th, 2009 at 10:59 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Over-inflating significance of election wins and or losses is usually a sign of desperation. The governorship races in New Jersey and and Virginia are, in my humble opinion, not that significant as they dealt primarily with local issues. Of far more significance it would seem are the results in upstate New York where, in a heavily Republican district, a Democrat won rejecting the “teabagger” crowd with their reactionary approach in matters of public policy expressed in their shrill and alarmist rhetoric spreading fear.
No, the tide is not turning at all for thinking members of the electorate. If the letter writer Mr. Gregory believes otherwise, and is attempting to start a stampede, he may find himself stampeding only with himself and members of his ideological camp. Some of us are not that easily spooked by others or the slightest passage of wind.
But, and in any case, we do thank the gentleman for his “educated?” opinion. More will undoubtedly be forthcoming and they will receive the same careful consideration and will be disposed of according to their merits.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 3:47 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
RLaitres,
Under estimating the significance of election wins and or losses is usually a sign of desperation. Two out of three is not bad. For you to dismiss the “teabagger” who lost the congressional race as any kind of a sign of what is to come shows your total ignorance. For that individual who lost he made a pretty good showing for coming out of know where and that election was close. The tide may not be turning fast but it is turning. Thinking members of the electorate? Your overtones of admonishment for Mr. Gregory still have the stench of your attitude toward conservatives because you were whipped in a school board election by a conservative. Thank goodness in that election you were disposed of according to your merits. That’s ok though, you can hold on to your delusion until the bitter end when you are drowning in the tide.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 8:18 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
To suggest that the Republican victories on Tuesday are not a sign of a change in the electorate’s view of the curretn administration is a sign of desperation.
To ignore what the polls have been clearly showing for the last several months is a sign of foolishness.
This president was elected by the independent voters, who are not liberals, because they were sick of Bush and scared to death of the plunging economy and stock market.
It is those independents who elected the governors of Virginia and New Jersey. It is those independets who have seen what liberalism is all about and they are saying “no mas”. And it is those independents, coupled with a very motivated group of “teabaggers” who are going to throw the liberals out in the next two elections.
And it is a sign of arrogance to suggest that the tide is not changing for “thinking members of the electorate”. It is not changing for clueless liberals who continue to believe that it is their way or the highway.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 9:07 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
The writer writes; Quit whining and blaming others, quit pursuing low priority items that distract from fixing the economy, and quit spending money we don’t have.
This is a problem for teabagger too. They have a lot of disdain for government, without serious solutions, and are transparently flawed with the same idealogy as Republicans. Teabaggers are just a sub-set of the Republican party which of course will rise from the ashes because the Republican party is just an extension of corporate interests who really are in charge of the country under Republican guise of “small government, fiscal restrain, traditional values”. There will always be citizens who believe the motto without examining the evidence to the contrary.
The younger generation is posed to move forward on progressive issues to stay competitive in the new world economy. In this country trying to get progressive issues addressed is like moving through the heavy sludge of the party of no. The polls do not support the opinion of the writer in that the exit polls suggest an overwhelming majoring of folks said the Obama policies had nothing to do with their vote and he is still highly popular in these same states.
We have a sizeable group of people who are willing to adopt mottos like “death panels” and “government takeover” rather than attempt understanding the complexities of issues.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 9:34 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci: “The younger generation is posed to move forward on progressive issues to stay competitive in the new world economy.”
Some of us certainly hope that such is the case as my own generation, the baby boomers or “me” generation have dug several great big holes in the fabric of this country. When looking at the teabaggers, what is quite evident that, many of them never having measured much beyond what concerned them personally, they represent a desparate attempt to continue holding on to power so that they can continue to “go shopping.” What is truly sad about it is that they were pretty much handed an opportunity for education but wasted it in just acquiring skills so they could make “money.” Being materialist and self-centerd then, most of them are not about to change enough to recognize, accept, and meet any obligation to anything greater than themselves. That is why, when disagreed with on any issue, they have nothing with whicy to respond but with “ad hominem” attacks, as they view any disagreement with their opinions as a personal attack.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 11:20 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Posts 4 and 5 above are a perfect example of delusion. These are posts by folks who will not accept the fact that nearly all polls show that the majority of Americans oppose Obama on the major issues.
These are posts by liberals who, like most liberals, have great difficulty separating idealism from realism. But most Americans are realists and, therefore, cannot be liberal.
Most Americans understand that there are limits to how much a government can grow its deficits before destroying the economy.
Most Americans understand that government is less efficient than private enterprise and they will not trust government to take over the health care system.
Most American care for the environment but they are unwilling to destroy the economy by imposing costs that are unjustified by the evidence.
Most Americans understand that we live in a dangerous world and they want to make sure that the government does its job of protecting us from aggression. Most Americans do not believe that the way to do that is by going around the world on an apology tour and by coddling up to the worst dictators in the world in the hope that they will be nice to us.
Most Americans are disappointed with Obama and even more disappointed with the liberal congress.
Liberals, who want to continue to think that dissatisfaction with this government is limited to the loony few, are welcome to continue to believe that. All the way to defeat in the next two elections. And the sad things is, that when they are defeated, they will look for every possible excuse (as they do in posts 4 and 5) and never learn that the reason they cannot succeed in getting their agenda passed is because most Americans do not want to be like the French, or the Germans, or the Brits.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 11:59 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
couldn’t agree more with the letter writer and post #6. i am impatiently awaiting 2010 elections already.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 1:36 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci,
So exactly what are your “solutions”? If you are aligning yourself with the left and the democrats it is plain to see that it is tax and spend and not let the citizens have a say because someone else knows better how to take care of you rather than you making your decisions, like Reid and Pelosi. Clear as day Pelosi stated she would let the citizens read a bill 72 hours before the vote. Here is what she stated not long ago to a reporter:
TWS: Madam Speaker, do you support the measure to put the final House bill online for 72 hours before it’s voted on at the very end?
PELOSI: Absolutely. Without question.
Now she is doing the opposite and not letting us see the final bill. Is this representation a “solution” you are talking about and moving forward? So you obviously love the idea of forking your money over to someone else blindly and letting them decide what to with it? Hey just give it to me I would be more than happy to spend it for you to.
I see you love the term teabagger in a derogatory sense. I for one don’t classify myself as that but if it makes you feel better to use that to describe me go right ahead. I am a constitutionalist and a true independent. There is a grass roots CONSERVATIVE movement you choose to ignore. It is coming whether you want it or not. You say that movement has no solutions? How blind you really are.
The solution this movement has is to put the federal government back in its place and make our politicians accountable to us and not themselves! Make them adhere to the enumerated powers in the constitution and make them see they are here to serve us. Serving us with what we think is right for us and not what they think is best for us. If you go with the former ideology like you are then you truly are a sheep being led off the cliff. The so called “teabaggers” at least think for themselves unlike you.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 4:50 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
My solution is to honor the likes of Brookly Born, whom I venture to guess not many of the teabaggers would bother to know. There is not more bad government than there is bad capitalism. I have disdain for a population of primarily white entitled men who within one month after a general election by the people decide to “take the country back”. It shows a disdain for democracy and and ignorance of the process, which breeds disaster for us during hard economic times. They are bullies who demonstrate on tax-paid for property with tax salaried employees (Republicans usually), using tax funded security services driving on tax funded roads and highways seeking power through ugly provocative language and complaint. That is not a solution I admire.
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 5:30 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Terrible of me to misspell her name; Brooksley Born
http://video.pbs.org/video/1302794657/
I must repeat;
There is not more bad government than there is bad capitalism
Posted November 6th, 2009 at 5:35 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci: “I have disdain for a population of primarily white entitled men who within one month after a general election by the people decide to “take the country back”.”
Such individuals believe in democracy, but only if they win. They remind me of a child on the playground who, when he does not “win”, either throws a tantrum or takes takes the ball and goes home. We saw that same scenario at the international level by the previous administration. After advocating for election in the Gaza strip where Hamas won, the administration would not accept the results. That does not indicate any respect at all for any type of democracy, or for any decision the voter makes.
Such tactics remind me so much of those used by the NAZI Party to gain political power in Germany that it is frightening. There also, the objective was to erode confidence in the government to that point where they could take over. Perhaps we are looking at our own version of the SA (Brownshirts) in some of the demonstrations and staged events we are now seeing. They will deny it of course, as they do not know history. But, for those who have, the tactics are easily recognizable and eerily familiar.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 6:53 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Republicans in NJ and VA ran as moderates. Not as tea partiers…
One lesson is that if Democrats did more to turn out their base, they might avoid this. Another lesson, from NY23, is that if the tea baggers take over the GOP primaries, they will do the Dems work for them–as they did in upstate NY, taking a seat that has been represented by Republicans since 1872.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 7:10 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Wow Oliver, spoken like a true blue liberal!
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:01 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
RLaitres,
Just when I thought I had read it all from you I thought nothing could top what you stated in #5, but alas you went completely off the deep end in #11. With all of your arrogance and so called knowledge and wisdom, how do you twist the grass roots conservative movement into something comparable to the NAZI Party and Brownshirts? You have no doubt completely lost your mind and if not that you are so bitter at the conservative movement and full of emotion that you have to resort to this?
Great example to use with Hamas and the Gaza strip. Who in their right mind would accept anything having to do with Hamas since they are terrorists? No wonder the complete failure of a president Jimmy Carter loves Hamas so much. No wonder he loves Obama too. They have a lot in common already, they are only one term presidents because the people see them for what they are, buffoons.
How can you possibly make a comparison of all this to the NAZI Party? What a fool you are. The conservative movement is about taking the federal government and putting back in the hands of the people as the founding fathers wanted in the first place. It is about making the government stick to the enumerated powers as given in the constitution thus allowing us to make our own free choices. How is guaranteeing freedom and liberty comparable to being a NAZI or a Brownshirt? I can’t wait for your explanation and to see what twisted thinking you have for the answer to that.
Oh wait how soon I forget, according to you, your leftist ideology, and your unfaltered wisdom like Pelosi and Reid, I am not smart enough to know what is best for me. I am better off being a sheep. What am I thinking challenging that? But wait, the constitution last time I checked guaranteed my individual rights and freedoms to make my own choices even if they are not the best choices. This has nothing to with power, but I can see why you would see it that way because power is everything to you and freedom is nothing. This is about FREEDOM! No one has to try and erode the confidence in government at all. This has already been done by the greedy, corrupt politicians, democrats and republicans both. A perfect example of this is ACORN. Why did it take two young adults with a video camera to take down this corrupt organization? Why couldn’t Eric Holder and the FBI do this as they had plenty of leads to go on to do so themselves? Oh wait, wait! I forgot, Obama worked for ACORN and they helped to elect him with all the election fraud, silly me. No wonder Holder had hands off ACORN. This kind of corruption as I see it lends itself more to your idea of a NAZI Party.
The previous administration is just that, the previous one and they are no longer in power so if you are so much about change why do you keep drudging up the past. Why not get with Obama’s program and help him “change” things? I will say it again for the likes of you and davinci from a famous movie quote - “The time for honoring yourselves will soon be at an end!” Go stick your heads back in the sand where they belong.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:08 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oliver is living in la-la land. That’s fine. I can understand the reason for shock. Liberals are now in excuses mode and I am certain their list will have grown very long by the end of November 2012.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:16 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci: “There is not more bad government than there is bad capitalism. I have disdain for a population of primarily white entitled men who within one month after a general election by the people decide to “take the country back””
White entitled man? Spoken by someone blinded by his aching desire for socialism who sees his dreams go down the drain. Karl Marx would have been proud of davinci.
“It shows a disdain for democracy”
So expressing one’s opinion is disdain of democracy? Laughable!
“and and ignorance of the process”
Arrogance at its best.
“which breeds disaster for us during hard economic times.”
No sir. The disaster is what your party has been concocting all year. And the people of this country are seeing it plain and clear.
“They are bullies who demonstrate on tax-paid for property with tax salaried employees (Republicans usually), using tax funded security services driving on tax funded roads and highways seeking power through ugly provocative language and complaint. That is not a solution I admire.”
In other words, davinci, you oppose peaceful demonstrations by anyone who disagrees with your left wing philosophy. Fair enough.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:22 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
It is hilarious to read the posts by some of our committed liberals on this site. They refer to Republicans as the party of “NO”. They complain that Republicans are bitter that they lost the election and are voicing strong opposition to Obama.
Where were these folks in the last 8 years?
Where Democrats the party of “Yes” during those 8 years. Did they accept the election of George Bush without complaint? Did the stay quite for 8 years allowing Republicans to push through their agenda unmolested?
Are there any hypocrites in this room?
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:32 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
bullishfrog “Posts 4 and 5 above are a perfect example of delusion.” I think you are confusing hallucination with delusion.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:47 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Thanks for the correction Skipp. I’m still trying to learn the language.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:51 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
publiusco; “How can you possibly make a comparison of all this to the NAZI Party? What a fool you are. The conservative movement is about taking the federal government and putting back in the hands of the people as the founding fathers wanted in the first place. It is about making the government stick to the enumerated powers as given in the constitution thus allowing us to make our own free choices. How is guaranteeing freedom and liberty comparable to being a NAZI or a Brownshirt? I can’t wait for your explanation and to see what twisted thinking you have for the answer to that.”
These tea parties were held within minutes of a national election. This is the federal government in the hands of the people. I am still in shock that the majority of people understand progressive ideas and decided to give it a go. So I object to your premise that the tp’s are interested in putting government back in the hands of the people, when they basically oppose the election results.
I think the reason this happened is because the conservative ideals have been exploited by corporate power. Conservative values are just what we need for responsible government, however your delusion is that these values have been in place under Republican leadership. Explain to me how the crippling deficit, the suspension of our privacy and habeus corpus align with conservative values. Explain to me why executive privilege should protect individuals who have outed a CIA agent for revenge? Where is the limit to executive/government power?
I don’t believe carrying guns to political events is peaceful or resposible.
I believe you need very clear lines between good guys and bad guys. I am not like that, but I have to tell you that as a young person I was convinced that Nixon did not lie! I thought, “he is the president of the United States, He doesn’t have to lie!” I think you will defend conservative values without understanding I have no problem with their values. The conservatives in general are black and white, good and bad, left and right thinkers (literally), and I just don’t think like that anymore. It is hard to have conversations with those who take offense at the gray thinkers; the wafflers as you put it.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:59 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bullish; “Where Democrats the party of “Yes” during those 8 years. Did they accept the election of George Bush without complaint? Did the stay quite for 8 years allowing Republicans to push through their agenda unmolested?”
Where have you been? Think about the Patriot Act and the party of yes. The democrats got in line with everyone for fear of being unamerican. They supported the Iraq war for the same reasons…
Do you know who Broolsley Born is?
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 8:59 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I mean Brooksley Born -
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 9:15 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci: “Where have you been? Think about the Patriot Act and the party of yes. The democrats got in line with everyone for fear of being unamerican. They supported the Iraq war for the same reasons…”
The Democrats supported the Iraq war and the Patriot act?
And then they spent the rest of the time bitching and moaning about the Iraq war and the Patriot act.
Are you saying that as soon as Democrats felt it was no longer necessary to feign their patriotism it was OK to put politics above country by rushing to claim defeat in Iraq in order to embarrass Bush?
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 9:18 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Brooksley E. Born is an American attorney and former public official who, from August 26, 1996 to June 1, 1999, was chairperson of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), the federal agency which oversees the futures and commodity options markets. During her tenure on the CFTC, Born warned Congress and the President of the need to regulate financial instruments known as over the counter (OTC) derivatives, but her warnings were disregarded. Lack of regulation ultimately led to the crash of the derivatives market, and helped trigger the economic and financial crisis in the fall of 2008.
And your point, Davinci, is?
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 9:34 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
She is the counter-point to Ayn Rand, the anti-government regulation icon. Her warning is that without government oversight, we become the worst of capitalists, which threatens democracy more than terrorism.
SHE WAS RIGHT and she was put in her place by forces that need this country to silently continue as an unregulated market ripe with corruption in high places. Even Alan Greenspan admitted he was wrong, in that his vision that the market will regulate itself is fundamentally flawed.
This is how it relates to reading election results as “democrats are loosing their grip on the people”; The corporate interests are winning. Their propaganda works and our democracy will not work without informed voters. We have to concentrate on election contribution reform, and understand the details of climate change, energy and economy. This is what the people voted for in the 2008 election. It is a rare opportunity to change the way Washington works. Call me idealist, but what are the options? Look at healthcare and the party of no, and swear to me those votes are based on what is good for the middle class versus their contributers.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 9:41 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bullish; Are you saying that as soon as Democrats felt it was no longer necessary to feign their patriotism it was OK to put politics above country by rushing to claim defeat in Iraq in order to embarrass Bush?”
How do you win an invasion of a country? The Bush/Cheney administration had their war plans for Iraq in place before 9/11, and swiftly moved politically to do their dirty work. By calling the invasion a war on terrorism, many well informed citizens thought they had “something to do with the attack of 9/11″. This should more than embarrass them, and us.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 10:00 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci: “She is the counter-point to Ayn Rand, the anti-government regulation icon. Her warning is that without government oversight, we become the worst of capitalists, which threatens democracy more than terrorism.”
And what government oversight are you looking for? That provided by the likes of Barney Frank, LIBERAL DEMOCRAT, who opposed regulation of Fannie and Freddie which, in the end, were among the primary factors that led to the subprime crisis?
“SHE WAS RIGHT and she was put in her place by forces that need this country to silently continue as an unregulated market ripe with corruption in high places. Even Alan Greenspan admitted he was wrong, in that his vision that the market will regulate itself is fundamentally flawed.”
Well davinci, you apparently are looking for the perfect, unflawed, economic system. Is it Socialism? Is it Communism? Which system is it, Davinci that you prefer over capitalism? I think it is time for you to come clean and tell us which system you like better.
“We have to concentrate on election contribution reform, and understand the details of climate change, energy and economy. This is what the people voted for in the 2008 election. It is a rare opportunity to change the way Washington works. Call me idealist, but what are the options?”
Nothing whatsoever has changed in the way Washington works just because liberals have taken over. Nothing. Right now in the Congress, Pelosi and her cohorts are trying to break some Democrats’ arms trying to convince them to vote for a health care bill the majority of the American people do not want. One of the most important pieces of legislation in a very long time and the Democrats, despite having a huge majority, are scrambling to pass this piece of crap with a majority of one or two votes. Talk about change in Washington. Change we can believe in.
“Look at healthcare and the party of no, and swear to me those votes are based on what is good for the middle class versus their contributers.”
Look at your own Democrats, buddy, you have all the Democrats you need to pass this monstrosity. Stop blaming Republicans for the Democrats’ difficulty in passing this thing. If your Democrats believed as you do, that only “teabaggers” oppose their agenda, they wouldn’t be so reluctant to follow the queen of darkness down the path of health care reform.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 10:02 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci: “How do you win an invasion of a country? The Bush/Cheney administration had their war plans for Iraq in place before 9/11, and swiftly moved politically to do their dirty work. By calling the invasion a war on terrorism, many well informed citizens thought they had “something to do with the attack of 9/11″. This should more than embarrass them, and us.”
So you are saying that Democrats in Congress went along with the war in Iraq, at first, because they are a bunch of idiots?
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 10:17 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I said they were the party of yes because they did not want to appear unamerican and forwarded the Republican/fascist agenda.
I am saying we are all much more subject to propaganda than we think. I happen to think that conservatives are more vulnerable. This is based on my observation that they adopt concrete ideas and are inflexible thinkers. I hate being wrong, but it is such a relief when I am wrong and can admit it. My idol is a nun who one day said to me; “Do you know what is wrong with the world?” I thought she was going to say; “people like me” but instead she said “religion”. This is a position of thought and a position of flexibility with ideas.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 10:34 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bullish; “Well davinci, you apparently are looking for the perfect, unflawed, economic system. Is it Socialism? Is it Communism? Which system is it, Davinci that you prefer over capitalism? I think it is time for you to come clean and tell us which system you like better.”
I like capitalism that is well regulated so that big business does not eat small entrepreneurs and innovation has avenues of capital that is based not just on profit but on social justice and benefit. I am sure you would consider this socialistic, which is fine with me. I don’t find socialism a dirty word.
I do think we have turned our eyes away from the use of our military to support corporate interests around the world. This military-industrial complex is a real threat to the human race, and will trump any government economic system, no matter how effective for the people. I use my son’s short version to understand economic systems; communism is when the government controls the economy and fascism is when corporate interests control the economy and capitalism the market is controlled by the people. It seems to me like any system is flawed by human behavior.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 11:04 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci: “I said they were the party of yes because they did not want to appear unamerican and forwarded the Republican/fascist agenda.”
So, you are saying that Democrats in government were willing to be led around by Bush, by the nose, because they had no convictions of their own on which they were willing to stand? Or are you saying that Democrats in the Congress voted to go to war in Iraq, knowing that it was a mistake, because to not do so would have made them appear unAmerican and might cost them re-election?
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 11:11 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
I would not attempt to read their minds. I was sharing my observations based on your question about “where was all the democratic support for the Republican agenda”. You have an evil twin, I am convinced. Your poor mother when she asked you to take out the trash.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 11:13 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci: “I like capitalism that is well regulated so that big business does not eat small entrepreneurs and innovation has avenues of capital that is based not just on profit but on social justice and benefit. I am sure you would consider this socialistic, which is fine with me. I don’t find socialism a dirty word.”
THANK YOU DAVINCI. It has been a long time comming for you to admit that you are a socialist. And I agree, your postings on this site go right along with that belief.
The problem you have, Davinci, is that socialism has been proven not to work. In fact, the only countries in the world that practice socialism today are communist countries. Why? Becuase it is only by force that a government can maintain socialism in a country once its citizens have discovered that it is a failed system.
Davinci, I lived under communism and was extremely lucky that my family was able to escape it and come to this country. I can assure you, my friend, that what you are seeing with the teabagger movement is nothing compared to what you would see if this country’s government tried to move in the direction which you desire, which could only be imposed in the US by force.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 11:14 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
bullishfrog: “So, you are saying that Democrats in government were willing to be led around by Bush, by the nose, because they had no convictions of their own on which they were willing to stand? Or are you saying that Democrats in the Congress voted to go to war in Iraq, knowing that it was a mistake, because to not do so would have made them appear unAmerican and might cost them re-election?”
Davinci: “I would not attempt to read their minds.”
LOL, so you are not sure.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 12:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
You are saying that capitalism is working? Don’t think so. Capitalism is in intensive care.
All systems are flawed by human group behavior.
Correct, about not reading minds of our elected officials, always guessing.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 12:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Davinci, my friend, you live in the wrong country. This one will not accept socialism/communism. There are af few out there, like Cuba and North Korea, that might meet your desire for paradise. I would suggest Cuba since it would also fit your apparent ideal health care system. Not sure about the health care system in North Korea.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 1:31 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Do you mind finding the reference in the constitution that I am required to be a devout capitalist to participate in a our democracy?
Also, coming from a failed communist state to a failed capitalistic state does not give you higher ground for clear thinking. You might be the jinx.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 1:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci, I came from a failed communist state. You want a successful communist state? You are a wild and crazy guy.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 1:57 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Bullish this is my response to mirror your posts in response to me.
Ah ha! so you admit you are the jinx!!! A secret agent that came from Russia to ruin us. I always knew the Russians had plan B, but I thought they would try to plant communist babies in our country. VEERRRY clever - ruining us by the red jinx.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 2:03 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
As I said, Davinci, you are one wild and crazy guy. But hey, we are just having a little fun here.
Have a good day buddy.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 3:29 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
davinci,
Just to counter some of you points in all your posts here.
You seem to want to connect the right as well as “white men” as having all the monetary power. Well just have a look at the richest lawmakers in our federal government and their party affiliation. California Republican Rep. Darrell Issa is the richest lawmaker on Capitol Hill, with a net worth estimated at about $251 million. Next in line: Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.), worth about $244.7 million; Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis.), worth about $214.5 million; Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.), worth about $209.7 million; and Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), worth about $208.8 million. Gee my math skills tell me that majority of those at the top are democrats. Imagine that.
“I think the reason this happened is because the conservative ideals have been exploited by corporate power. Conservative values are just what we need for responsible government, however your delusion is that these values have been in place under Republican leadership. Explain to me how the crippling deficit, the suspension of our privacy and habeus corpus align with conservative values. Explain to me why executive privilege should protect individuals who have outed a CIA agent for revenge? Where is the limit to executive/government power?”
Don’t make assumptions about me being alligned with the republican party. I have stated many times in several posts that I am a staunch constituionalist and an independent. Having said that I am no fan of Bush eitehr if you have ever cared to read my remarks about him as well. I despise the Patriot Act. I won’t get in to detail as to why right now but it infuriated me when it was passed.
“I object to your premise that the tp’s are interested in putting government back in the hands of the people, when they basically oppose the election results.”
Last time I looked it was our right to oppose election results, especially with the likes of ACORN and other entities out there promoting all the voter fraud. Not mention the liberal media and the sheep who beleive anythign they say. This one by you is laughable at best - “I am saying we are all much more subject to propaganda than we think. I happen to think that conservatives are more vulnerable.” A perfect example is this -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8.
So when you watch this video clip I will submit to you conservatives and “teabaggers” are much more informed than the other side and can think critically. But when you think critically and challenge Obama and the left you are either a racist or someone who helped create the mess and should just get out of the way for “change”. Sorry it is not going to happen.
“This is how it relates to reading election results as “democrats are loosing their grip on the people”; The corporate interests are winning. Their propaganda works and our democracy will not work without informed voters.”
You seem to want to link corporate power as controlling all the tea baggers. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are everyday average American citizens fed up with both sides right and left ripping us off. If you want to talk about corporate power controlling anything just look at Obama’s administration appointments. Almost all of them pure Wall Street, do the research into each one of them and find out for yourself. You need to not be so blinded and open your eyes man. All I see Obama as is Bush on steroids.
Love this one - “I said they were the party of yes because they did not want to appear unamerican and forwarded the Republican/fascist agenda.” Eitehr you have a set or don’t and stand up for what is right, end of story.
“Do you mind finding the reference in the constitution that I am required to be a devout capitalist to participate in a our democracy?”
Do you mind finding the enumerated reference in the constitution that gives the federal government power the power to require me to have health care or go to prison?
“I like capitalism that is well regulated so that big business does not eat small entrepreneurs and innovation has avenues of capital that is based not just on profit” Notice I cut your sentence off. I totally agree with you here. But the rest of that quote by you I totally disagree with. It is not the federal governments job nor within their enumerated powers in the constitution to dictate or be involved in creating social programs and making us have health care or be put in prison or fined if you don’t.
I believe based on my reading of the constitution, the reading of teh federalist papers, and the reading of many of our founding fathers that federal government was to be very limited in its powers. Thus this is why they spelled out in the enumeration in the constitution. In the preamble to the constitution it could not be more plain - to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense and promote the general welfar” and then then the powers are set forth by the wording and enumeration. Some want to use teh welfare clause to twist this into social programs and nothing could be further from the truth. James Madison, one of the authors of the Federalist Papers and one of our founding fathers stated this about the general welfare clause as it relates to the constitution -
“With respect to the two words “general welfare,” I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators. If the words obtained so readily a place in the “Articles of Confederation,” and received so little notice in their admission into the present Constitution, and retained for so long a time a silent place in both, the fairest explanation is, that the words, in the alternative of meaning nothing or meaning everything, had the former meaning taken for granted.”
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 4:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
One of the interesting thing about some posts is that they like to refer to what is known as “critical thought” or “critical thinking”. That is a very valuable tool but, the educated and intelligent person recognizes that the first object toward which that should be applied is to him/herself and to what they personally believe and why. Unfortunately, most do not do so. They simply assume that they are right, not only that, but actually that they can’t be wrong.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 4:44 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
RLaitres,
You had to be looking in the mirror whe you wrote #42. By the way if you have something you want to address to me feel free to have a set and address me directly, its okay I don’t bite.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 5:19 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Ditto on #41 Nice comments Publiusco. This is precisely why I feel that Bush a was too liberal for my taste.
Publiusco… not that it matters, or is on topic.. I will venture a guess that you can name the other Black Candidate for President last year?? 2 of 5 candidates with a statistical chance to win, were Black. Oddly enough, the well informed electorate that brought us Obama cant tell you the other Black guys name.
Posted November 7th, 2009 at 6:14 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Remember Publiusco this is just my opinion; doesn’t and shouldn’t threaten your world or your reality;
You can and should question election results if there is suspected fraud or machine mistakes (like in Florida 04), but opposing election results is the same as opposing the will of the people especially if there is a clear majority without widespread signs of voter fraud.
Rojellio; I can’t remember any of the candidates now…this probably proves whatever point you are making
Posted November 8th, 2009 at 9:35 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Gains by the minority party are fairly commonplace in off year elections. Even with his “honeymoon” numbers waning, President Obama still enjoys a favorable overall popularity rating.
I always have to grin (make that smirk) at some Republican comments about storming Washington and taking it back for all right-thinking Americans.
I consider myself a conservative Democrat (?), and agree with moderate Republicans on many issues. My problem, and think many people’s problem with Republicans, is the Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity blithering idiots who claim to speak for the Republican party. These guys are so far right, they make Ronald Reagan look like a raging liberal.
The tax and spend Democrats don’t scare me nearly as bad as these sort of polarizing hate mongers, one of which all but dropped the N bomb on the president of the United States. (Glen Beck, in case you’re wondering).
So, dear Republicans, if you truly expect to win any of us over you need to first figure out who speaks for you as a party, and where you truly stand….specifically, not in general on pertinent issues. Right now you remind me of a dog chasing it’s tail.
Posted November 14th, 2009 at 4:27 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
boneyard,
you remind me of a sheep being led off a cliff, wake up!
Posted November 14th, 2009 at 4:39 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
boneyard: “So, dear Republicans, if you truly expect to win any of us over you need to first figure out who speaks for you as a party, and where you truly stand….specifically, not in general on pertinent issues. Right now you remind me of a dog chasing it’s tail.”
Dear boneyard, the first thing YOU need to figure out is that, in this country, freedom of speech is still a right. And that includes the right of folks on the far right, lick Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh, as well as folks on the far left, including the ones that populate MSNBC. Do those left wing wackoes speak for you? If they scare you less than those on Fox then, sir, you are no conservative Democrat.
Posted November 16th, 2009 at 5:21 am Login to Send PM Report this comment
Rojellio,
I held out as long as I could since you also threw down the challenge to name the other black presidential candidate. But alas I see none on the left being so informed about Obama could come with Alan Keyes name. It doesn’t surprise me one bit. The left was too worried about watching CNN and MSNBC and this is what you ended up with. This one really pisses the left off just watch the responses I get to posting this video link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8
Posted November 17th, 2009 at 4:08 pm Login to Send PM Report this comment
Oliver stated -
“One lesson is that if Democrats did more to turn out their base, they might avoid this. Another lesson, from NY23, is that if the tea baggers take over the GOP primaries, they will do the Dems work for them–as they did in upstate NY, taking a seat that has been represented by Republicans since 1872.”
Looks like it ain’t over until the fat lady sings! Looks like that
unorganized “tea bagger” independent could actually walk away with the most votes after all in the NY23 congressional election. Not bad for a guy who came out of no where. You and the rest posting here saying the tide is not turning go ahead and stay in denial.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/67997-hoffman-unconcedes-in-ny-23
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